Motorsports Thread

[glasgowcyclist]

Husbanding electrons for strategic deployment is not a measure of driving skill, but a function of mathematical modelling. Im on the verge of bailing out a viewer until the next mechanical formula comes along.

While understand your viewpoint, I'm just glad that it's no longer a procession from turn one, dependent only on who has the better tyre management.

At least now there is entertainment in watching drivers overtake more often, with all the risks that entails. Look at the Ferraris on Sunday, even Leclerc came on the radio to say how much he was enjoying the race with Hamilton.

 

[figbat]

…even Leclerc came on the radio to say how much he was enjoying the race with Hamilton.

That was the second shock of the race. That the person who came out second best from some close racing claimed it was fun, rather than running to teacher to tell on the nasty man that hurt his ego.

 

[Drago]

While understand your viewpoint, I'm just glad that it's no longer a procession from turn one, dependent only on who has the better tyre management.

At least now there is entertainment in watching drivers overtake more often, with all the risks that entails. Look at the Ferraris on Sunday, even Leclerc came on the radio to say how much he was enjoying the race with Hamilton.

TBH, while a procession isn't exciting its at least honest if they're in equal machinery and theyre all moving for it. An overtake under Scalextric rules is meaningless.

Interestingly, LeClerc was, rather politely, dead against it all through test and first practice, but now Fezza are suddenly doing well its not so bad after all.

 

[biggs682]

F1 is not my favourite form of Motorsport but I watch it .

It needs to be close racing with plenty of action, but sadly it's not and hasn't been for a while and neither has top level rallying.

I feel that Motorsport has gone money crazy , it's always been an expensive sport .

 

[Alex321]

I wasn't a fan of DRS for the same reasons. They were a poor substitute for writing proper technical rules to limit aero.

Tyre deg happens to a greater or lesser extent in any motorsport, its a function of driving cars, and all teams had to manage an equal problem, and they pushed as hard as they could within that constraint. Slowing to drop a gear and raise ref to charge a battery isn't pushing at all.

2 forced stops was also a poor decision.

There was a time when it was indeed balls to the wall from flag to flag to flag, barring the limits of fuel capacity and mechanical wear. Husbanding electrons for strategic deployment is not a measure of driving skill, but a function of mathematical modelling. Im on the verge of bailing out a viewer until the next mechanical formula comes along.

But in that time, overtaking was much more possible, as cars were smaller and slower. If you didn't have some system to allow the cars behind to get more speed, overtaking would hardly happen between closely matched cars.

 

[classic33]

Still in favour of getting rid of the current Blue Flag rules.

 

[katiewlx]

I remember having an F1 game on the original PlayStation that had his commentary but back then it was pretty limited and used a few stock phrases over and over. One of them was ‘unless I’m very much mistaken - I am very much mistaken’. I could never work out if it was an actual bit of commentary or recorded for the game.

Edit - just checked and not only was it one of his famous quotes it was also the title of his autobiography.

Ive a feeling, which probably means Im very much mistaken too it might originally have been a quote from one of his Rallycross or touring car commentaries, as he didnt just do F1. but it came attached to his commentary for F1, so of course they used it.

 

[katiewlx]

Any more artificial than deliberately degrading tyres , DRS , forced use of of 2 tyres, forced 2 stops a Monaco ?
F1 has never been balls out from flag to flag.

we got pretty close to it in the refuelling era, Schumacher doing 15-20 back to back qualifying laps was stunning to watch.

I think the whole "but weve always managed stuff" in the sport misses the point. Watch Days of Thunder to get the lowdown on tyre management, DRS was a sticking plaster to too much allowance of aero taking precedence, forced pitstops at least allowed tactics to develop, the different compounds should have at least offered different racing strategies. Monaco is Monaco, theres no way this current generation of cars are going to make that race exciting. Sennas pole lap looks more and more impressive as the years go by as he was doing it all by himself, just man and machine in perfect synchronicity, not being told to brake less in this turn, coast here, push that button, etc etc.

F1 shouldnt be basically drive like a computer program, I mean I thought they banned all those "horrid" driver aids because they took away from the drivers inate skill at controlling a car at the edge of adhesion and ultimate speed, they acknowledged the driver brought driving skill and wasnt just ballast, yes they have to manage their tyres so they dont cook them, thats part of their skill to still drive faster doing it than anyone else can, yes they had to manage the turbo boost back in the day so they didnt fry the engine or burn too much fuel, but again its about extracting the maximum speed out of the car, with the limitation that actually to finish first, you must first finish, and to do that takes skill.

Im not seeing what skill is involved in slowing down, to recharge a battery so you can push a button to pass someone just like its mario kart, who then just repasses you by doing the same thing.

 

[FishFright]

we got pretty close to it in the refuelling era, Schumacher doing 15-20 back to back qualifying laps was stunning to watch.

I think the whole "but weve always managed stuff" in the sport misses the point. Watch Days of Thunder to get the lowdown on tyre management, DRS was a sticking plaster to too much allowance of aero taking precedence, forced pitstops at least allowed tactics to develop, the different compounds should have at least offered different racing strategies. Monaco is Monaco, theres no way this current generation of cars are going to make that race exciting. Sennas pole lap looks more and more impressive as the years go by as he was doing it all by himself, just man and machine in perfect synchronicity, not being told to brake less in this turn, coast here, push that button, etc etc.

F1 shouldnt be basically drive like a computer program, I mean I thought they banned all those "horrid" driver aids because they took away from the drivers inate skill at controlling a car at the edge of adhesion and ultimate speed, they acknowledged the driver brought driving skill and wasnt just ballast, yes they have to manage their tyres so they dont cook them, thats part of their skill to still drive faster doing it than anyone else can, yes they had to manage the turbo boost back in the day so they didnt fry the engine or burn too much fuel, but again its about extracting the maximum speed out of the car, with the limitation that actually to finish first, you must first finish, and to do that takes skill.

Im not seeing what skill is involved in slowing down, to recharge a battery so you can push a button to pass someone just like its mario kart, who then just repasses you by doing the same thing.

Sorry but I could not disagree with you more.

 

[FishFright]

Still in favour of getting rid of the current Blue Flag rules.

Blue flags works fine as a warning of a faster car car approaching in non Formula racing.

The change was yet another dumb idea to increase overtaking.

 

[classic33]

Blue flags works fine as a warning of a faster car car approaching in non Formula racing.

The change was yet another dumb idea to increase overtaking.

Warning of faster cars approaching is one thing, having to move out of their way or risk a penalty is another entirely.
Those at the front of the field in any F1 race seem to expect that a car they want to lap, is able to move out of their way at a time that favours them. The race is everyone in it, and the current blue flag rules means that battles further down the field are being hampered.
If the drivers of those cars wanting to pass are as good as they feel they are, artificial overtaking wouldn't be required. And, if really faster, with a better driver behind the wheel, there should be no problem overtaking.

 

[Dan Lotus]

I think those of us who knew F1 back in the last century have a very different viewpoint to those who are younger and consequently more recently acquainted with the sport.

The Netflix series will have attracted a whole new raft of fans I suspect, predominantly of a younger age, who it could be argued, 'demand' to be entertained, or they will go elsewhere.

We have an F1 chat going at work, of varying ages, but probably on balance the average age is more in the 20s range, and whilst there are a couple of people citing issues with the current situation, around 75% of admittedly a small group, are finding it entertaining and looking forward to the next race.

I'm still undecided, but I personally am definitely finding it entertaining, enjoying the unpredictability of the starts, and the fact there is seemingly immediate action, overtakes, attempted passes.
In summary, whilst detractors are certainly not alone, they are likely more vocal than those who are watching and are happy or happy enough with the current format.
My 12 year old daughter, who has been watching F1 probably for 8 years now, is absolutely loving it, she has no complaints at all.
She knows all of the drivers, and has herself started watching the DTS series, has her favourites, teams she likes and dislikes, and the same for drivers - I like the fact she has gotten there without me pushing her towards it.

I was just about watching it in the 70s, though my real memories are from the very early 80s, and I have mixed memories of it over the years, but I don't tend to wear rose tinted glasses.
I certainly do recall in the 90's, turning on for the start of a race, seeing the procession, waking up 90 minutes later to see a mostly similar list of drivers in the positions they were at the start.
Monaco would be a prime example of course, but there are others as well - and for the record, I personally love Monaco and am not someone who wants to see it gone.

Liberty media are now of course the owners, and have been since 2017, but allegedly they may be looking to sell - I imagine to maximise their enormous profit they will be looking for huge viewing and revenue figures to boost the sale price even more.

 

[gbb]

Sadly the drivers are husbanding electrons when they should be pedal to the metal and going for it as fast as they can possibly drive.

By all means have energy recovery and electrical assistance, but not to the point where drivers are having to spend considerable time and effort charging them instead of having a ding dong with rival drivers as fadt as they can possibly go.

I want to see drivers extracting the maximum performance they can hadle at all times. If I wanted to competitors deliberately going slow id watch a walking race.

And there's the rub, F1 is becoming a race of individual cars all trying to get to the finish line where economy and how its managed s a really major factor, no longer pure power and druver skill but ...which if F1 wasnt bad enough over the last decade at least...Will just turn me off even more than I already was.
An overtake is no longer an overtake in the old sense, its not longer about driver skill with both cars operating at their limits.
Its been soul destroying to watch F1, a sport id watch avidly in the pasr become something I couldnt really care less if I missed it or not.

Does anyone else get just as excited as they used to watching old F1 clips on YT, i know i do, the struggle, the noise, the movement of the car, there seemed to be jeopardy in it all, thats what made it fabulous.
Now ?...in car cameras make it look very simulator like.

I do miss Indy racing, there was always more track position movement than you could keep up with

 

[FishFright]

I think those of us who knew F1 back in the last century have a very different viewpoint to those who are younger and consequently more recently acquainted with the sport.

The Netflix series will have attracted a whole new raft of fans I suspect, predominantly of a younger age, who it could be argued, 'demand' to be entertained, or they will go elsewhere.

We have an F1 chat going at work, of varying ages, but probably on balance the average age is more in the 20s range, and whilst there are a couple of people citing issues with the current situation, around 75% of admittedly a small group, are finding it entertaining and looking forward to the next race.

I'm still undecided, but I personally am definitely finding it entertaining, enjoying the unpredictability of the starts, and the fact there is seemingly immediate action, overtakes, attempted passes.
In summary, whilst detractors are certainly not alone, they are likely more vocal than those who are watching and are happy or happy enough with the current format.
My 12 year old daughter, who has been watching F1 probably for 8 years now, is absolutely loving it, she has no complaints at all.
She knows all of the drivers, and has herself started watching the DTS series, has her favourites, teams she likes and dislikes, and the same for drivers - I like the fact she has gotten there without me pushing her towards it.

I was just about watching it in the 70s, though my real memories are from the very early 80s, and I have mixed memories of it over the years, but I don't tend to wear rose tinted glasses.
I certainly do recall in the 90's, turning on for the start of a race, seeing the procession, waking up 90 minutes later to see a mostly similar list of drivers in the positions they were at the start.
Monaco would be a prime example of course, but there are others as well - and for the record, I personally love Monaco and am not someone who wants to see it gone.

Liberty media are now of course the owners, and have been since 2017, but allegedly they may be looking to sell - I imagine to maximise their enormous profit they will be looking for huge viewing and revenue figures to boost the sale price even more.

For all their faults Liberty have got young people involved in a way I've never seen before . This ensures the sport has a future at least. The viewing and attendance figures have been higher .

 

[biggs682]

So any truth that Horner is having talks with Aston Martin do we reckon ?