Narrow lanes - do not overtake cyclists

[Milkfloat]

It's not.

When cyclists take a central lane position I guess they are they still "tempting" drivers to overtake them; tailgate them; beep/swear/shout at them; punishment pass them; deliberately squeeze them to the kerb/try to run them off the road; and/or hit them?

By taking the central position, not only do you discourage the crazy overtake, you have an exit route if someone does try it. Maybe I am lucky but I never seem to suffer the driving I see here, but perhaps it is because of my assertive but defensive driving.

As for victim blaming, in previous posts, sure I blame the victim to a certain extent, but only for not doing enough to protect themselves from idiot drivers. It is all well thinking you live in a perfect world where there are no injustices, but the reality is far from that.

 

[SW19cam]

I won't reply to every comment I disagree with (as there are a few ) but I think the combination of road works, signs and double white lines should be 'discouraging' enough. I often take primary, but here I don't think it would have made a substantial difference - they wanted to get ahead of me, and would have still overtaken, albeit after some horn and light flashing.

 

[Bazzer]

By taking the central position, not only do you discourage the crazy overtake, you have an exit route if someone does try it. Maybe I am lucky but I never seem to suffer the driving I see here, but perhaps it is because of my assertive but defensive driving.

As for victim blaming, in previous posts, sure I blame the victim to a certain extent, but only for not doing enough to protect themselves from idiot drivers. It is all well thinking you live in a perfect world where there are no injustices, but the reality is far from that.

May be you are lucky, but I see this of driving almost everyday; As I am sure many others on here do.
I have even had had stupid gits pass me on the opposite side of traffic islands, when I have taken an assertive road position!
Even today, I popped out for a quick hour or so and I, along with an unconnected cyclist in front of me, was overtaken by some tosser in a Merc 4x4 on a blind bend with double whte lines. - Neither of us was gutter riding, nor were were just pootling along.

 

[glenn forger]

I have even had had stupid gits pass me on the opposite side of traffic islands, when I have taken an assertive road position!

yep, I get that outside the pub on Thorpe Road.

 

[Markymark]

Sounds like a perfect reason why drivers should have to spend 6 - 12 months on a bicycle or motorcycle before being allowed behind the wheel of a car

Yet black cabs who do this are no better

 

[buggi]

I think the point the Milkfloat was trying to make is that for one's own safety, one must be assertive to cover motorists that are incompetent. I no longer take the approach that I have right of way as it will not protect me. I now take the approach that I must show that I have right of way.

Yes I understand that but experience has taught you that. We've all, at some point, being inexperienced and not known about taking the lane. It is the responsibly of the driver to ensure the way is clear before overtaking. If he doesn't, you don't turn round and say the cyclist should have taken the lane. Yes, ideally, it's better if he does but he may not know he can. I've just been out with two cyclists and taught them this. They had never heard of it before.

 

[Schneil]

By taking the central position, not only do you discourage the crazy overtake, you have an exit route if someone does try it. Maybe I am lucky but I never seem to suffer the driving I see here, but perhaps it is because of my assertive but defensive driving.

.

You're more than welcome to take a ride up here. Assertive riding does help, but doesn't discourage the serious numpties.
I was overtaken by an agressive twat on Thursday night, I'd taken the lane and I was doing 30 in a 30mph zone.

 

[Origamist]

By taking the central position, not only do you discourage the crazy overtake, you have an exit route if someone does try it. Maybe I am lucky but I never seem to suffer the driving I see here, but perhaps it is because of my assertive but defensive driving.

As for victim blaming, in previous posts, sure I blame the victim to a certain extent, but only for not doing enough to protect themselves from idiot drivers. It is all well thinking you live in a perfect world where there are no injustices, but the reality is far from that.

Where cyclists feel the (entirely justifiable) need to adopt a rolling road-block tactic at a lane narrowing or pinch point there is always going to be an increased likelihood of conflict. If you have never experienced bad driving at these junctures - whilst in the centre of the lane - I'm amazed.

If you spend any time using the road network (i.e. 15 mins in any vehicle, as a pedestrian, horse rider etc) you will be all too aware that road behaviour and sense fluctuate violently. More so, when drivers feel they are being deliberately delayed. The idea that simply adopting a stronger road position (the Primary Position Panacea) is a quick fix to the scenario encountered by SW19cam is daft as the consequences of such behaviour can lead to other forms of conflict. However, as you do not seem to have encountered these problems that most of us deal with intermittently, it appears that it is actually you that is cycling in a perfect world bubble, not the rider in the video.

 

[crazyjoe101]

He didn't spend enough time doing the slalom courses in driving games - everyone knows you're not supposed to hit the cones.

 

[crazyjoe101]

Alternatively, he might have been going for a new highscore:

 

[Milkfloat]

Where cyclists feel the (entirely justifiable) need to adopt a rolling road-block tactic at a lane narrowing or pinch point there is always going to be an increased likelihood of conflict. If you have never experienced bad driving at these junctures - whilst in the centre of the lane - I'm amazed.

If you spend any time using the road network (i.e. 15 mins in any vehicle, as a pedestrian, horse rider etc) you will be all too aware that road behaviour and sense fluctuate violently. More so, when drivers feel they are being deliberately delayed. The idea that simply adopting a stronger road position (the Primary Position Panacea) is a quick fix to the scenario encountered by SW19cam is daft as the consequences of such behaviour can lead to other forms of conflict. However, as you do not seem to have encountered these problems that most of us deal with intermittently, it appears that it is actually you that is cycling in a perfect world bubble, not the rider in the video.

As I said maybe I am just incredibly lucky, but perhaps it is the strong primary or the fact I am 6'4" and more of a sprinter than a climber.

I am fairly sure that in the video, I would have been plumb centre of the lane, but putting in some extra effort to keep the speed up. If the vehicles had been stupid enough to overtake at least I would be able to move towards the curb. Better to get beeped at or called a w@nker than get squashed. I can genuinely think of one close pass that made me think 'bloody hell that was close', the culprit was a LBS van of all people.

 

[gaz]

Taking the centre of the lane does nothing to stop a blind idiot form overtaking and crashing into the cones. The only thing it does is give you a bit more room to the left to move into.

Look at those cones, clearly visible and cyclist in front of him would have been easy to see past, yet he still crashes into them.

 

[Origamist]

As I said maybe I am just incredibly lucky, but perhaps it is the strong primary or the fact I am 6'4" and more of a sprinter than a climber.

I am fairly sure that in the video, I would have been plumb centre of the lane, but putting in some extra effort to keep the speed up. If the vehicles had been stupid enough to overtake at least I would be able to move towards the curb. Better to get beeped at or called a w@nker than get squashed. I can genuinely think of one close pass that made me think 'bloody hell that was close', the culprit was a LBS van of all people.

I’ve no problem with people arguing the case for a central lane position when cycling along narrow lanes (it’s likely I would be in the centre of that lane in the video too) – but what I’m detecting from your posts is a) a fundamentalist/evangelical view about only the pros of primary position and b) a limited appreciation of the mind-set of impatient drivers who ignore signs, unbroken white lines, bollards and are happy to play follow my leader with the car in front. For these kinds of drivers, a cyclist's lane position is of no real consequence.

 

[Milkfloat]

I’ve no problem with people arguing the case for a central lane position when cycling along narrow lanes (it’s likely I would be in the centre of that lane in the video too) – but what I’m detecting from your posts is a) a fundamentalist/evangelical view about only the pros of primary position and b) a limited appreciation of the mind-set of impatient drivers who ignore signs, unbroken white lines, bollards and are happy to play follow my leader with the car in front. For these kinds of drivers, a cyclist's lane position is of no real consequence.

My thoughts are that I have very little control over the cars - the only thing I can do is protect myself and try to give them a hint. Drivers can be complete knobbers (as can cyclists) but I don't see what more can be done other than taking a decent primary. Obviously, if you get rear ended you are totally screwed. Do you have any ideas about what else can be done to protect yourself?

 

[Drago]

Get crushed on the nearside you're also totally screwed, and more likely at that.

A strong primary isn't a cure for all car driving ills. It may discourage the more normal thoughtless driver, but the utter plank - like this van driver - will attempt acts of insanity regardless of the circs.