Navigation in europe.

[dawnieman]

Hi, I'm fairly new to cycling and cycle tours in particular. I am planning a tour to spain next summer with my family. I'm keen not to go the wrong way too often (don't think the children will appreciate it!) and so I am looking for advice on how best to achieve this. I plan to use a combination of other people routes both on cycle track and road. Can anyone give any advice on the logistics of planing this trip. (I am planning to go from Roscoff to Santander)

Thanks
Dave

 

[andym]

Erm Roscoff to Santander is a tour in itself. Are you doing that and then a tour of Spain?My general advice as far as pre-planning is concerned is to avoid routes nationales/carreteras nacionales (if you can) and ride on the departemental/provincial roads. The roads to avoid are shown in red on michelin maps and orange in others.Michelin maps are very good (also there viamichelin.com site). The scenic roads are highlighted in green - in both Spain and France I've found these recommendations very reliable. There are voies vertes going down the west coast of France. Major issue would be crossing the Pyrenees.I'd recommend a Garmin Legend Hcx in combination with OpenCycleMap maps - although the newer generation of Garmins (eg Dakota) are well worth considering if you can get a decent price.

 

[andym]

PS sorry about the absence of paragraphs - for some reason this site keeps losing them - and I'm fed up with having to faff around editing posts to put them back in again.

 

[dawnieman]

Thanks andym, I will check out the michelin maps. I was wondering if people use any phone based applications for navigation or whether I will need to buy a device such as the garmin?

 

[psmiffy]

Navigation – Tour Basics

1) Put Roscoff and Santander along with basic waypoints like Nantes and Bordeax (assuming that you intent to go to those places) into some mapping software and work out how far it is using the shortest route option – say about 1000km – add 10% if you are an optimist, say 1100km – 20% if you are a pessimist say 1200km – divide by the number of miles/km you intend to do each day to get how many days cycling you are going to need to do – add the number of rest/sightseeing days you are going to take = trip time - ? if it takes that long are you going to miss the boat from Santander.

2) Do not worry too much about getting lost – France is well signposted and with an adequate supply of Michelin maps you will not have any problems plus if you keep the sea on your right shoulder you should not go far wrong. Do not overplan the route – its easier just to make it up as you go along and should you come across a road you do not like its easier to adjust without upsetting the plan – stop and sit in a café with the map on the table and pick the most likely looking roads to take – with kids along they will be the ones in yellow and white on the Michelin. Round the corner into Spain with the Pyrennees on your left it will become more difficult to find small roads and they will become more hillier – if you are going to buy maps at better than the 1:200k of the Michelin then this is where they will be most useful. Personally I would not bother with a GPS - useful for navigationg in large towns but a street plan works just as well - maps you can see where you are going at a glance and pick the most suitable route by eye - they also allow everyone to see where you are going and where you have been.

3) Accommodation constrains the route – if you are using B&B or Hotels then they will need to be booked and will define the days run - if you are camping going south to the Spanish border and beyond along the coast between Easter and August Bank Holiday there are plenty of campsites – buy the Michelin Green or the ADAC Book and mark the most likely looking campsite on the maps in the evening as you go along.

4) Decide where you want to go and what you want to avoid – I will start with -

If you go through Brest use the ferry from there to get to La Fret.

At Lorient use the foot ferry across the Blavet to get to Port Louis.

Avoid the bridge across the estuary at St Nazaire by going inland and using the ferry at Coueron across the Loire.

La Rochelle to Rochforte there is a signed cycle route avoiding the main road

The Velo Verte south of Royan is easy cycling but can be a bit boring - inland by the lakes is more interesting so I would suggest a bit of pic and mix

 

[cyco2]

I wish you all the best with your tour. I at first I thought it was bonkers of you but so long as your family know exactly what they are letting themselves in for then I guess it will be successful. I did a rough calculation of a 1000mile journey would take on average 30mile/day=33days. Some of it in very hot conditions. I did some of that journey on a small motorbike once and the heat in the pine forest near Bordeaux was torrid.
I guess you're using google maps at the moment they are fantastic. I guess we would all like to know how it's going from time to time. One question I have is do you have a plan B or C. I'm not as ambitious as you I'm just going to amble around the Brittany coast path which I had a lot of trouble finding out about until I found google maps. GL

 

[psmiffy]

One question I have is do you have a plan B or C. I'm not as ambitious as you I'm just going to amble around the Brittany coast path which I had a lot of trouble finding out about until I found google maps. GL

It is a good point about the plan B or C when you get to the Spanish end - running out of time or its too hot - too hilly - I followed a Spanish cyclist through the section between the border and Santander - he was always ahead of me and invariably when I saw him he was taking a siesta in a park - transpired that he was using the train to get between places - Ive never used the train in Spain but it would seem that it is easy enough

 

[andym]

Regional and local trains in Spain are very easy. Long-distance trains are another matter.There are phone-based applications about. Mobile Atlas Creator for example might be well worth checking out - as a way to download OpenCycleMaps etc to a phone/iPod. Something like a Garmin Hcx still has the huge advantage of using AA batteries and a relatively long battery life (although using a small screen is a pain). The other advantage is that digital maps weigh nothing (OK the equipment to use them does weigh a bit) and give you way more detail than you would get on the sort of scale map (eg 1:200k) that wis feasible to carry. They also cost nothing, or very little in comparison to paper maps. (I use both paper and digital maps BTW). I found having a GPS with detailed mapping invaluable when the road shown on my Michelin map turned out to be carsand motorbikes only, with a GPS I was able to find the backroads that weren't shown on the map.A Brittany coastal path? I don't know the coast from Roscoff going west, but SFAIK certainly going to Roscoff here's only a long-distance hiking path which is definitely not suitable for biking (and IIRC bikes aren't allowed on it).

 

[dawnieman]

Thanks for some excellent advice. We'll definitely take paper maps and continue to investigate the software suggested here.
As for plan B , trains sound like a good idea should it all get too much, especially for crossing into Spain as we've heard that the roads can be very busy at this point.

 

[psmiffy]

Spain - I had forgoten I had read this - wrong way but

 

[steveindenmark]

You can also pick up maps from Tourists office on the way as well as lots of other useful information.

Once you have finished with a map post it home with some postcards of the trip. That way you are losing weight and gaining space all along your route. The postcards help to remind you where you have been and relate to the map in the envolope.

I have the Garmin 305 and it is great for navigating but the batteries only last about 10 hours and so you need to be able to recharge them or carry an external power device.

Steve

 

[snorri]

I'm keen not to go the wrong way too often (don't think the children will appreciate it!) and so I am looking for advice on how best to achieve this.

A pocket compass can be helpful. It's all very well finding the right road, but it's important to travel in the right direction.

 

[HelenD123]

A pocket compass can be helpful. It's all very well finding the right road, but it's important to travel in the right direction.

Good advice.

 

[psmiffy]

I have carried a compass of some sort on every one of my tours - and never used it for navigating

 

[Dave Davenport]

I have carried a compass of some sort on every one of my tours - and never used it for navigating

I've got a compass cable tied to the stem on my tourer, it's been very handy.

As for the route; the bit between Bayonne & San Sebastian is very congested and not much fun, south/west of there is lovely. How old are the kids and what sort of cycling experiance have you all got?