So if you didn't you use it for navigating what did you use it for? - I'm intrigued.
Navigation in europe.
- Thread starter dawnieman
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So if you didn't you use it for navigating what did you use it for? - I'm intrigued.
I have always thought that it was a sensible thing to carry a compass while I am touring so in my early years I carried my workday Silva Compass clinometer - (and for a while I had a little bell thing with a compass that someone gave me as a present - about as much good as a choclate fireguard on a steel framed bike) - never got used and they ended up being left at home in recent years in favour of the electronic one in my Suunto watch - still not used for navigation but very handy for checking exactly where the sun is going to come up when picking a camping spot so that I avoid being in the shade if at all possible in the morning.
I have never found that I have needed a compass to tell me which way I am going - road touring there is the - err road - even with the low amount of detail on a 1:200k map there is always enough features to work out which way is up - which together with the giverway clues offered by signposts normally keeps me on track.
edit - the little bell thing used to give me a little bit of amusement - I would be following a river or something similar going east and it would often show me to be going north
I have never found that I have needed a compass to tell me which way I am going - road touring there is the - err road - even with the low amount of detail on a 1:200k map there is always enough features to work out which way is up - which together with the giverway clues offered by signposts normally keeps me on track.
edit - the little bell thing used to give me a little bit of amusement - I would be following a river or something similar going east and it would often show me to be going north
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
I probably use the compass in the cities more than the open country. For example when exiting London tube or railway stations, I know I'm on Oxford Street or wherever, but the compass helps me orientate myself as to which side of the street and which way to go without constantly referring to a map.
I have navigated several thousand miles of tours, with me as the chief navigator (advising the Leader) and a peleton of up to 20 behind me.
I use the following with a handlebar bag with a see through map pocket of some sort is essential
- Into this goes the best maps you can find - 1:40,000 is best, 1:25,000 a bit too detailed, 1:100,000 misses too much, and 1:200,000+ you may as well use directions on a napkin, which may get you to where you need to be, or may not.
- I add to this a GPS - Maps are for seeing where to go, GPS is to show you where you are! When people are following you you need to know the junction is 200m ahead and you need to go left or right without stopping every turing to check directions
- I also have the 'bell compass' as above, which in the middle of town is great to make that instant decison on left or right
Well i used a steel framed bike with my bell compass [cost £3-] and it was spot on for directions, i relied on it 100% when riding from Belgium [ostend] to calais.
Without the compass i would have struggled, kept on finding motorways and little in the way of roads for cycling on but the compass led me straight to calais on quiet roads.
I used the compass on a 600 mile trip and it was always guiding me properly.I isolated it from the steel frame using rubber as i knew it had a magnet inside.
It wasn't as simple as just looking for the sea or coast, as the sea wasn't always in view, i needed the compass to guide me continually to the west, and it did.
I've bought a garmin gps now as i want to have cycle routes to follow.
When i cycled through France and Belgium i carried printed out maps and a michelin atlas as well as using the compass.The michelin atlas wasn't high enough in detail when it came to cities, so i relied on the compass to lead me in the direction out of the city until i could find somewhere that was on the michelin map.
I am not saying that I thought carrying a compass is not a sensible thing to do - in fact I think I said the opposite - and in fact I still carry one - it is just that in my 56000km of touring I have never had recourse to use one for finding my way – my work compass is an excellent tool – the little bell one I had was not very reliable – the one in my watch is pretty good - everybody has their own way of doing things.
I find the most difficult thing when navigating on tour is leaving big cities – finding the end of the road that you want to be on can be a bit hit and miss if you are going to avoid the motorways. In the largest cities, say Berlin, Prague, Paris I will buy a stadt plan If I am going to do some touristing – helps when I am leaving in the morning.
As to maps my choice has always been around 1:100k - 1:200k – I always look for the 1:200k although I have often had to use much worse depending on what is available - the 1:50k that are the standard in the UK are brilliant but maps at much less than 1:100k sometimes last less than a day – I find I can easily navigate using 1:200k – any roads that are not shown I generally do not want to go on anyway – The OP would be fine on 1:100k IGN maps but will require around 15-20 from Roscoff to Santander – personally I would use the 1:200k Michelin (4 maps) for France with some 1:100k or maybe better for the Spanish section.
I find the most difficult thing when navigating on tour is leaving big cities – finding the end of the road that you want to be on can be a bit hit and miss if you are going to avoid the motorways. In the largest cities, say Berlin, Prague, Paris I will buy a stadt plan If I am going to do some touristing – helps when I am leaving in the morning.
As to maps my choice has always been around 1:100k - 1:200k – I always look for the 1:200k although I have often had to use much worse depending on what is available - the 1:50k that are the standard in the UK are brilliant but maps at much less than 1:100k sometimes last less than a day – I find I can easily navigate using 1:200k – any roads that are not shown I generally do not want to go on anyway – The OP would be fine on 1:100k IGN maps but will require around 15-20 from Roscoff to Santander – personally I would use the 1:200k Michelin (4 maps) for France with some 1:100k or maybe better for the Spanish section.
I probably use the compass in the cities more than the open country. For example when exiting London tube or railway stations, I know I'm on Oxford Street or wherever, but the compass helps me orientate myself as to which side of the street and which way to go without constantly referring to a map.
Me too, Snorri. Great for getting out of big cities.
I've used one a few times when my maps have been inadequate or inaccurate.
The children will be 14 and 12 and we all have next to no cycling experience, as for years I thought my knees weren't up to it! I plan on making up for lost time!! I think we will take a small compass and do as psmiffy said and go with 4 michelins and as detailed as possible for the spanish section as that looks like a tricky section. Thanks for all the advice folks.
Dave Davenport
Guru
- Location
- Hampshire
That's around about an 800 mile tour, how long do you plan on taking?
The Spanish section is quite straight forward, as is the whole route really, as has been mentioned already coming out of a larger town or city on the road you want is usually the trickiest bit. We used five Michelin regionals for Bilbao - St Malo earlier this year which would cover your route.
andrew_s
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucester
For maps, I'd recommend taking pages out of the Michelin 1:200,000 road atlas for the French section. Recent Michelin maps aren't as good as they used to be, with random scales (whatever fits the region or department on the sheet), and areas the wrong side of the region/department boundary obscured by town centre plans and placename indexes etc. What with region overlap, you find more maps are required.
For navigation, all French roads have numbers, the numbers are shown on Michelin and IGN maps, and also on roadside kilometre stones and signs leaving towns & villages. If you pay attention, you aren't going to go very far up the wrong road before finding out. French signposts will also tend to point at the end of the correct road rather than in the direction required, so a sign attached to a wall pointing right will often mean you have to take the road just to the right of the sign, rather than meaning that you turn right.
If you use GPS, I'd recommend an Etrex Legend HCx plus City Navigator maps. Rechargeable AAs last a lot longer than the built in batteries on the Edge models, can be instantly replenished/replaced, and losing a battery charger and a pair of AA from a camp site toilet block is less of a loss than the GPS would be.
The free OpenStreetMap for France and Spain still has too many areas with missing roads to be reliable for navigation, though it may be good if you are happy to crosscheck with paper maps, as it has many cycle tracks on it that don't appear on paper or City Navigator. I tend to use mine mostly as a recording cycle computer and moving map reminder, sometimes clicking on a point a few miles ahead and letting it auto-navigate me there so I don't have to stop to check the map every other junction, rather than putting in a route for the whole day.
DON'T head for the St Nazaire bridge over the mouth of the Loire. It's legal, but the cycle track is a 80cm wide marked out by white paint job, directly on the side of what's not far off a motorway, and there are often quite strong crosswinds.
There's a free ferry (bac) at Coueron/le Pellerin, just downstream of Nantes. It runs every 15-20min, probably 7am to 8pm with a missed trip for lunch. Upstream of Nantes, there are a number of minor road bridges.
If you take a coastal route in Spain, there's quite a jolly transporter bridge at Portugalete (Puente de Vizcaya) that allows Bilbao to be bypassed.
For navigation, all French roads have numbers, the numbers are shown on Michelin and IGN maps, and also on roadside kilometre stones and signs leaving towns & villages. If you pay attention, you aren't going to go very far up the wrong road before finding out. French signposts will also tend to point at the end of the correct road rather than in the direction required, so a sign attached to a wall pointing right will often mean you have to take the road just to the right of the sign, rather than meaning that you turn right.
If you use GPS, I'd recommend an Etrex Legend HCx plus City Navigator maps. Rechargeable AAs last a lot longer than the built in batteries on the Edge models, can be instantly replenished/replaced, and losing a battery charger and a pair of AA from a camp site toilet block is less of a loss than the GPS would be.
The free OpenStreetMap for France and Spain still has too many areas with missing roads to be reliable for navigation, though it may be good if you are happy to crosscheck with paper maps, as it has many cycle tracks on it that don't appear on paper or City Navigator. I tend to use mine mostly as a recording cycle computer and moving map reminder, sometimes clicking on a point a few miles ahead and letting it auto-navigate me there so I don't have to stop to check the map every other junction, rather than putting in a route for the whole day.
DON'T head for the St Nazaire bridge over the mouth of the Loire. It's legal, but the cycle track is a 80cm wide marked out by white paint job, directly on the side of what's not far off a motorway, and there are often quite strong crosswinds.
There's a free ferry (bac) at Coueron/le Pellerin, just downstream of Nantes. It runs every 15-20min, probably 7am to 8pm with a missed trip for lunch. Upstream of Nantes, there are a number of minor road bridges.
If you take a coastal route in Spain, there's quite a jolly transporter bridge at Portugalete (Puente de Vizcaya) that allows Bilbao to be bypassed.
Dave Davenport
Guru
- Location
- Hampshire
Obviously only you know your kids but that sounds like too much for a 12 year old with no cycling experiance to me, unless you're willing to let the train take the strain a bit.
I agree with DD. I'm sure your kids can do 30 miles in a day. Problem is doing it day after day for 25 days - they may well want a variety of activities, not just cycling.
Maybe think in terms of a circular trip (ferry to and from Roscoff)? Or a route that allows you to spend a few days each at a different points on the route - that way if you and the kids are up for it you can go out for a day ride, or otherwise go to the beach or sightseeing or whatever.
Maybe think in terms of a circular trip (ferry to and from Roscoff)? Or a route that allows you to spend a few days each at a different points on the route - that way if you and the kids are up for it you can go out for a day ride, or otherwise go to the beach or sightseeing or whatever.
