Need advice for turning right.

[roadrunner20]

So im getting used now with my MTB being used as my cummute bike and also getting used to the fact that a ride without some sort of silly near miss or silly overtake is part of life.

One issue though im still trying to work out is turning right.

Heres the scenario which this applies to.

Map: EN3 5UL coming out of Saint Stephen's Road

So i coming out of Saint Stephen's Road turning RIGHT,

Theres a car in Elmhurst Road also wanting to turn RIGHT........

Traffic is clear my side so move into middle of the road as you would in a car.

The other car user is ofc not paying attention and decides NOT to move straight out into middle of road and wait for space but cutt across the road/diagonally into me (lucky i saw this and cut around his rear as he cutt across me)


Heres is what i thought the rules are:

You both turning right thus both cars move into middle of road ,side by side then each car pivates pivots around the rear of the other car, (cant find the picture but i had it in my AA book/driving book)

am i totally wrong, or is there a better way of doing this as im tired of people cutting across the roads.

 

[MissTillyFlop]

So im getting used now with my MTB being used as my cummute bike and also getting used to the fact that a ride without some sort of silly near miss or silly overtake is part of life.

One issue though im still trying to work out is turning right.

Heres the scenario which this applies to.

Map: EN3 5UL coming out of Saint Stephen's Road

So i coming out of Saint Stephen's Road turning RIGHT,

Theres a car in Elmhurst Road also wanting to turn RIGHT........

Traffic is clear my side so move into middle of the road as you would in a car.

The other car user is ofc not paying attention and decides NOT to move straight out into middle of road and wait for space but cutt across the road/diagonally into me (lucky i saw this and cut around his rear as he cutt across me)


Heres is what i thought the rules are:

You both turning right thus both cars move into middle of road ,side by side then each car pivates pivots around the rear of the other car, (cant find the picture but i had it in my AA book/driving book)

am i totally wrong, or is there a better way of doing this as im tired of people cutting across the roads.

You are right. I have had people scream at me "why aren't you indicating?!", when I still actually have my arm in the air, pointing right (and I mean in the air, at 90 degrees!).

Some people just do not look for bikes, sadly.

 

[John Ponting]

I first met the 'modern' "cross in front of" rather than "pivot round rear" being used in Manchester about 30 years ago. It is quite common in St Albans at many traffic light junctions. The "cross in fron" allows a queue to move on if no oncoming reason not to. "Pivot round rear" can cause gridlock. Not sure which I prefer but find it confusing when in a strange locale.

 

[benb]

Looking at that junction, it's not actually a crossroads. If you had already made it onto Hertford Road before they came out, they should have given way to you anyway. The opposite is also true; if they had already come out onto Hertford Road, you should have given way.

 

[gaz]

Link to the location on google maps?

 

[Phil-W-]

The highway code used to state always pass offside to offside (pivot behind) unless road marking dictates otherwise, this has now been amended to either pass offside to offside or nearside to nearside, whichever is most appropriate. Offside to offside is usually safer as you can see oncoming traffic, but in a queue you need to rely on the drivers behind leaving space for the vehicle turning behind you.
There are many examples of the highway code changing and it's every road user's responsibility to keep up to date with the changes, but seriously who buys and checks for changes every year?

 

[benb]

Link to the location on google maps?

http://g.co/maps/9xexy

 

[Matthew_T]

Link to the location on google maps?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=EN3+5...g0Xece4Wy4IeoCSVQS9b7g&cbp=12,333.71,,0,11.27

 

[MossCommuter]

I first met the 'modern' "cross in front of" rather than "pivot round rear" being used in Manchester about 30 years ago. It is quite common in St Albans at many traffic light junctions. The "cross in fron" allows a queue to move on if no oncoming reason not to. "Pivot round rear" can cause gridlock. Not sure which I prefer but find it confusing when in a strange locale.

The "Manchester Turn" my driving instructor called it. I passed my test 25 years ago when it was still a relatively new phenomenon.


I think the A580 is to blame; I still get the willies turning right onto that road.

 

[al-fresco]

You're right about the offside to offside turn - but I've only seen it done when I used to ride a motorbike and force cars to turn properly by positioning myself so they didn't have much choice. But more and more junctions have been constructed or painted to discourage it and in practice I don't think I've seen any other road user doing it since the 1980s

 

[martint235]

Ok my take on this is the car from Elmshurst Road should have remained at the give way line. If you come out of St Stephens and turn right, you are on the main carriageway and have priority at the point of passing Elmshurst Road. This junction isn't a cross roads from what I can see.

 

[roadrunner20]

Thanks for the replys at least i know im sort of in the right

Looking at that junction, it's not actually a crossroads. If you had already made it onto Hertford Road before they came out, they should have given way to you anyway. The opposite is also true; if they had already come out onto Hertford Road, you should have given way.

This is a good point the problem you find is that useally the cars come out no matter whether i am in the middle of the road or not so this will sadly never happen.

My main issue was whether i was being wrong in my thought processes as i did my test and passed well just over 6 months ago, so even though i not a "pro " i hope my know-how is upto date and such i doing the "right thing"

What is worrying is that the cars never seem to do the OS to OS turn and just force their way out thus the person on the other side has to give way due to them being "out first"

With this in mind and im a cyclist it becomes bloody dangerous when people do this and are not paying attention:Case in point......

Was hit on the rear wheel as i guy "forces" out of that road while looking in the glovebox, hit me as i moved into the main road and moved behind a van after road was clearclearly the guy looks up quickly sees van thinks his clear to look in glovebox while moving out)

Very anoyed given he just drove off..no insurance either i later found out.

 

[Matthew_T]

One thing which annoyed me a bit is that me and one of my college friends were watching my cycling videos which I had uploaded yesterday afternoon. I cannot remeber which vid it was exactly but he told me that if I hadnt been in the middle of the road, then nothing would have happened. I was in the right turn lane.
I explained to him that as I was turning right, I had to be in primary. He then said that cyclists, horses, pedestrians should be on the left of the road and then when they get to the turning, swerve across the road and turn. I then told him that this was nonsense and we started argueing about him only just passing his test and me knowing more than him, blaa, blaa, blaa......

We then ended up watching gypsies bare knuckle fighting on YouTube in then end.

 

[Twanger]

He then said that cyclists, horses, pedestrians should be on the left of the road and then when they get to the turning, swerve across the road and turn. I then told him that this was nonsense and we started argueing about him only just passing his test and me knowing more than him, blaa, blaa, blaa......

I just had this weird vision of a bunch of pedestrians swerving into the right lane to turn right......