New approach to careless motorists

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dand_uk

Well-Known Member
Danger
Monday, December 13th, 2010 by Mick Allan

A recent cycle industry report by Allegra Strategies concluded among other things that: ‘Safety is still the main barrier to cycling, especially among women’.

No surprise there then.

The recent heavy snowfall had a big effect on driver’s attitudes to one another. There were widespread break-outs of tolerance, patience and community spirit as motorists let each other out of junctions and even jumped from their cars to push ice stricken wheel spinners. Unfortunately this new found friendliness to fellow man didn’t seem to cross the barrier to users of other modes of travel.

Over the last couple of weeks ice and snow has been so thick on the ground that pavements have become unpassable. Pedestrians have been forced to walk in the street – as they are entitled to do. I’ve seen cars drive straight at pedestrians, forcing them to jump back on to the pavement! Not isolated incidents either, several times, and including elderly folk and children. We cyclists aren’t getting any extra seasonal goodwill from drivers either – Caz returns every day with tales of too-close passes by drivers, people zooming past with a roar of engine and cutting in too soon or tail-gating whilst revving their engines ! This to a woman towing a child trailer FFS.

I ‘get’ the idiocy of driving a car at sixty miles per hour with only an A4 sized view-hole on an icy motorway. I saw it with my own eyes the other night. I get that. It’s gross stupidity. I understand that people are stupid. What I don’t get is the punitive swerves, the ‘get off my road’ sheer aggression aimed at cyclists and peds when they ‘get in the way’ of drivers. It makes me want to take up arms against them, to chase them down and shoot the crap out of their car whilst they sit there cowering at the wheel. How [enter desired swearing word here] dare you treat me and mine like we don’t matter. How dare you make our roads a terrifying place to be. In your poxy Vauxhall Corsa. How dare you!

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The simple fact that most drivers in the UK have forgotten – if they ever knew – is that cyclists (along with pedestrians and horse riders) are entitled to use the roads. Entitled. We don’t use the road with the permission of motorists (there’s the feeling sometimes that we’re only ‘allowed’ to use the roads when there are no cars around and by golly we better get out of the way when they arrive). Cyclist’s entitlement to use the road is enshrined in law. Motorists on the other hand require a driving licence which requires a test of competency and a knowledge of the laws pertaining to driving. But that’s not all, motorists must also be a certain age and be insured. Their car must conform to a set of rigourous safety standards, be registered and after a few years must undergo annual safety checks in the form of a MOT test. And motorists must pay Vehicle Excise Duty. It is this VED which confuses many. Motorists imagine that it is called Road Tax (it hasn’t been called Road Tax since the 1930s When Winston Churchill was minister for roads) and – crucially – that payment of this ‘tax’ gives them some kind of right to use the road along with the entitlement to lord it over more vulnerable road users.

It’s very simple: cyclists have a right to use the road, motorists have no such right. Motorists must obtain a licence. So we should be treated with the utmost repect then right? Sadly not. In many motorists eyes we are somewhere below dogs and above street furniture in the hierarchy of objects which should be steered clear of.

‘Safety is still the biggest barrier to cycling’. Actually as we are probably all aware – ‘The health benefits of cycling outweigh the dangers by a factor of twenty to one’, but how many more people would be pedalling if the roads were safer? There is only one source of danger to cyclists – aggressive or incompetent drivers of automotive carriages. Forget bike lanes and cycle paths, in fact forget cycling ‘infrastructure’ completely. We have a very well made and extensive network of cycling facilities; it’s called the roads. Removing the danger from our roads is a simple job and way cheaper than ghettoising cyclists into their own farcilities. Driver education combined with high quality punishments. Simple.

When I feel scared to let the kids walk to school because I see cars doing near twice the speed limit on an icy local road it’s clear that our car worshipping culture needs to be reined in. And reined in hard. 3000+ people are killed every year on our roads. It’s a massacre. An air crash every month.

No more Mr Nice Cyclist – We’ve waved bad drivers on with a cheery grimace for too long because we wanted an easy life and look where it got us. The next time a taxi cuts too close I’ll report the driver to the council department which issued his license to trade. The next time a suit in a Beemer swerves at aggressively me I will report the incident to the police. And the next time some twerp in a Range Rover threatens the safety of the people I love they’d better hope I haven’t gotten around to installing a Sidewinder heat-seeking missile to my bike.

They don’t have the right to scare us off the roads.



+1
 

Firestorm

Veteran
Location
Southend on Sea
An Aluminium cycle pump across the roof /bonnet is fairly educational
 

I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
I try not to partake in discusions like this as I believe we should all be able to get along nicely just by being reasonable and decent towards each other however, and this is incredibly apathetic of me, I just can't be bothered engaging in the arguement in the real world.

There are two reasons for this,


  1. While I can put together a reasonably well considered response to many arguements given time to think things through, unfortunately I do not fare well in an instantaneous exchange where I struggle to express myself well and the best replies only occur to me after the event so why bother to engage in a discussion where I am likely to come off second best regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case?
  2. People are so unreasonable even in the face of common sense and decency. As an example I have twice asked parents outside my childrens school to park more considerately and had a very negative response. This is a completely non-charged situation but the persons in question have reacted as if I was wrongly accusing them of a major crime. Parking near to the school safely is difficult and cars are often abandoned in ludicrous positions but there are a few laybys that will easily fit three cars but often only have room for two cars as selfish parking means parents are parking nearly half a car length from the end of the layby. After suggesting to these people they could help the parking shortage by being more considerate I came to the conclusion that I was wasting my time!

The wider problem is that people today are more and more selfish (not everybody of course). This is why there is so much litter, people wrongly park in parent and child spaces at supermarkets and think nothing of cutting up a cyclist! They don't give a damn about the consequences of their actions and confronting them just causes a heated situation because 'How dare you question my RIGHT to do what I want to?'
 
OP
OP
Blackandblue

Blackandblue

New Member
Location
London
B&B you're right, in a perfect world everyone would behave nicely to each other and if a situation were to arise all parties would sit and discuss the causes and learn from it. In reality you're going to get a motorist who just wants to get to his/her destination as quickly as possible as they've been sat in traffic for hours already and the day is getting worse by the minute. They're now confronted by a well meaning cyclist (who knows nothing about the road, afterall the motorist had to pass a test to drive, what did the cyclist do, visit halfords?) telling them that they don't know how to drive. These bleating cyclists, a bunch of drama queens the lot of them. You ride away feeling either happy that you've educated a motorist or mad because you've had a mouthful of abuse. The motorist drives off feeling either threatened by the confrontational cyclist or mad because their driving standards have been questioned, and they haven't had an accident in years!

I just don't see how anyone benefits, and the argument that cyclists are vulnerable doesn't work... You make that choice when you get on the bike.

I may be in a slightly different position being in London. What I mean by this is that traffic moves slowly. I don't have to chase down errant drivers. They are typically sat a few feet further on at a red light. Most discussions I have had have not actually held anyone up. On the other hand I have also had discussions where motorists voluntarily stop to talk. Indeed the Range Rover driver the other day stopped his car across two lanes of the entrance to the street he was turning into, got out of his car and walked over to me. I wasn't actually trying to engage him in a conversation at the time. (He claimed he only got out because he knew he was in the right - which I took to mean that if he was in the wrong he would have driven off without another word - so in hindsight the prospect of him ever acknowledging to my face (or those of the 6 witnesses) that he did anything wrong was exceptionally unlikely).

If I can ride away thinking that a motorist may think twice next time he is in a similar situation, then I will indeed ride away content. If I get a mouthful of abuse, I am able to brush that off.

And I don't accept your viewpoint on the vulnerability argument. My getting on a bike does not excuse anyone else from their duty of care towards me, whether on foot, in a car or on a bike. Indeed that duty is increased towards those people in more vulnerable situations.

I don't go out of my way to engage with motorists (in my OP, this is what I meant by "if the opportunity arises"). It's just relatively easy as part of a London commute.

And I don't agree with criminal damage as a retaliation.

I don't have a helmet cam. I have considered getting one and these last two incidents have pushed me closer to making that decision. I will look into Roadsafe. Maybe that is a more effective solution (combined with reports to the Police for more serious cases).
 

John the Monkey

Frivolous Cyclist
Location
Crewe
The recent heavy snowfall had a big effect on driver’s attitudes to one another. There were widespread break-outs of tolerance, patience and community spirit as motorists let each other out of junctions and even jumped from their cars to push ice stricken wheel spinners. Unfortunately this new found friendliness to fellow man didn’t seem to cross the barrier to users of other modes of travel.

Although we were frequently tailgated & beeped (in our car) as we dared to travel at a safe speed for the conditions on our way to Shropshire a few weeks ago. At the time it outside temperature varied between -13 and -15°C, which I understand to be below the temperatures where grit &c is effective. Plenty of people were willing to take their chances at 60mph and above, it seemed, and more than willing to harass anyone not sharing that view.
 

ohnovino

Large Member
Location
Liverpool
Shortly after I took up cycling, I was involved in a very minor altercation which got a bit nasty. A car tried to cut a corner on the wrong side of the road and found me in his way. I (politely) stood my ground and pointed out the road markings, and after a few seconds of swearing and revving the engine, both the driver and passenger got out to confront me (one of them swinging a heavy looking steering lock) and I ended up escaping along a pavement.

Ever since then I've avoided almost any form of discussion with drivers, because you simply never know what type of psycho you're confronting.
 
Section 3 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (RTA 1988) creates two possible offences for careless driving: (1) driving a motor vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention or (2) without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place. The penalties are the same for both: a fine of up to £2500, mandatory endorsement with three to nine penalty points, and discretionary disqualification. Careless driving IS a criminal offence. There are also aggravated offences such as "causing death by careless driving" with much higher penalties.

The law does not actually state what constitutes careless driving but courts have said the offence of careless driving is committed when the standard of driving falls below the standard expected of a reasonable and competent driver. ‘Careless driving’ can include;
  • Disobeyed traffic sign or signal
  • Driving too close
  • Wrong course position
  • Misjudging speed or distance
  • inattention or attention diverted
  • Junction overshoot
  • Turning without care
  • Making a ‘U’ turn without care
  • changing lanes without care
  • reversing without care
  • stopping or starting without care
  • overtaking without care
  • emerging from minor road without care
  • emerging from private road or entrance without care
  • crossing or entering road junction without care
  • distracted by action inside or outside the vehicle
The Range Rover driver turning right in front of the cyclist would appear to be Careless driving and therefore as an alleged crime surely should be robustly investigated in the same way you would report a theft, burglary or assault? I would suggest on the average commute we will see all the above - a crime fest!
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Nicely put Mickle!

I feel much the same way. I won't put up with bullying behaviour, and that's one reason I have cameras. I'll always youtube and report the incidents I feel overstepped the mark. Not going to bother with minor mistakes, but always with bad attitude and aggression.
 

Jezston

Über Member
Location
London
Is there some kind of device us cyclists can have visibly on us that can instill sufficient fear into motorists that they'll leave us alone, like a gun, but that is actually legal to carry?
 

I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
Is there some kind of device us cyclists can have visibly on us that can instill sufficient fear into motorists that they'll leave us alone, like a gun, but that is actually legal to carry?


YES, a bike with no brakes or lights, a dark hoody, bandero face mask and tuck your pants into your socks while leaving the top 4 or 6 lace holes of your boots undone. I certainly steer well clear of any cyclist like that and there are plenty of them!!!
 
B&B you're right, in a perfect world everyone would behave nicely to each other and if a situation were to arise all parties would sit and discuss the causes and learn from it. In reality you're going to get a motorist who just wants to get to his/her destination as quickly as possible as they've been sat in traffic for hours already and the day is getting worse by the minute. They're now confronted by a well meaning cyclist (who knows nothing about the road, afterall the motorist had to pass a test to drive, what did the cyclist do, visit halfords?) telling them that they don't know how to drive. These bleating cyclists, a bunch of drama queens the lot of them. You ride away feeling either happy that you've educated a motorist or mad because you've had a mouthful of abuse. The motorist drives off feeling either threatened by the confrontational cyclist or mad because their driving standards have been questioned, and they haven't had an accident in years!

I just don't see how anyone benefits, and the argument that cyclists are vulnerable doesn't work... You make that choice when you get on the bike.

Doing nothing always works better, surely?



Obviously there is the "making it worse", but if the motorist has a bad attitude from it, the problem is already there?
 

Cardiac

Über Member
I have not had the misfortune to have to have a verbal with a driver (too few miles). But I do make a positive effort to thank those motorists who hold back at a safe distance before overtaking and then leave a satisfactory clearance between their vehicle and mine. A friendly wave doesn't cost much. The hope is they will appreciate it and maybe even mention it to others, thus spreading a more positive message. Of course, the many ninja cyclists and other inconsiderates will probably undermine my efforts....
 
Isn't it worth while to have a discussion with the driver that squeezed through cos they couldn't possibly wait 15 seconds more until there was a safe place to pass, after holding them up for a couple of minutes 'chatting'....point that out?
 
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