New Boiler

[BrumJim]

Looking where to get proper advice, really.

Boiler has let us down three winters out of four. This year we are going to replace it, and I'm going to kick it around the garden until it apologizes. So we need to replace it.

Thing is, that the hot water tank is in the upstairs bathroom, with the header tank only just above it, which means that there is very little head for the hot water taps in the bathroom. Takes about 20-30 minutes to run a bath. Since then, we have installed a loft hatch, so we can now get access to the roof space. Also might be nice to have a radiator in the bathroom (to dry towels) and one in the kitchen (where the boiler is) so that it isn't so blinking freezing in the morning.

We have the budget and hopefully the time to start with a blank sheet of paper. We have a South facing house with pitched roof and flat roof, although it is a terrace, so limited space.

So, a lot of choices here. Do we go for standard combi boiler, hot feed combi boiler using solar tubes, or open vented hot water system/unvented hot water system with or without solar tubes? Or just go for PV?

I'm not really looking for experiences or advice, but instead, where to go to get an independent and detailed comparison of the benefits and running costs (efficiency) of each type. Any idea as to a book, web site, organisation or forum for these things?

 

[BrumJim]

[QUOTE 4625276, member: 45"]I know a very good gas man local to you. We used him loads, as did mom and dad.[/QUOTE]

Not relevant to this question, but my wife is a property manager, and always good to have an extra name or two.

I'm looking for technical advice at the moment, rather than a gas man.

 

[sight-pin]

A sealed system boiler with a Megaflo cylinder is a good system if you want to keep a cylinder, it's a direct (unvented) system that works on mains water pressure, although it is an expensive version.... Just another idea

 

[gavroche]

Combi boiler. Instant hot water, no water tank .

 

[The Jogger]

We have just agreed a new boiler with an engineer today. We opted for a Worcester/Bosch Combi

 

[sight-pin]

Combi boilers are good but you can suffer hot water denial if you running two bathrooms etc.

 

[Levo-Lon]

Ideal boilers are rather good

 

[Broadside]

Looking where to get proper advice, really.

Boiler has let us down three winters out of four. This year we are going to replace it, and I'm going to kick it around the garden until it apologizes. So we need to replace it.

Thing is, that the hot water tank is in the upstairs bathroom, with the header tank only just above it, which means that there is very little head for the hot water taps in the bathroom. Takes about 20-30 minutes to run a bath. Since then, we have installed a loft hatch, so we can now get access to the roof space. Also might be nice to have a radiator in the bathroom (to dry towels) and one in the kitchen (where the boiler is) so that it isn't so blinking freezing in the morning.

We have the budget and hopefully the time to start with a blank sheet of paper. We have a South facing house with pitched roof and flat roof, although it is a terrace, so limited space.

So, a lot of choices here. Do we go for standard combi boiler, hot feed combi boiler using solar tubes, or open vented hot water system/unvented hot water system with or without solar tubes? Or just go for PV?

I'm not really looking for experiences or advice, but instead, where to go to get an independent and detailed comparison of the benefits and running costs (efficiency) of each type. Any idea as to a book, web site, organisation or forum for these things?

If you really want advice you probably need to pay for an energy consultant. We just replaced our boiler and knew what we wanted but even then we were hit with lots of differing and inconsistent opinions, it is very difficult to determine what is true and what is opinion.

If you've got poor hot flow then you might as well go for a combi and regain the space where the current water tanks are. Modern combis can run a lot of water, ours fills a bath in under 10 mins. If you want a standard system boiler then installing a Mega flow is a great option for mains pressure hot water but at eye watering cost as the mega flow cylinder is often more expensive that the boiler itself.

 

[bikingdad90]

We had the same issue a dew years ago and went for a combi for ease and the need to repurpose the old tank cupboard for storage. One thing to be aware of is if you install a boiler in the loft you will need a hatch with ladders and a boarded out access route to the boiler for regular servicing. We left ours in the kitchen due to where the hatch is.

If you prefer to go for a condensing boiler and keep the tank, consider future proofing it and getting one of the modern ones that can handle pv and biomass.

I would also consider investing in thermostatic valves which you can control in each room and get each room just so. If your main thermostat is old definitely replace it as most newer boilers taper the water temperature when room temperature is close to been reached and as old ones can be inaccurate you boiler will not be as efficient as it could be.

Finally, depending on the age of the radiators you may experience some leaks and possibly bad corrosion when the system is flushed. If it is too bad you may also need new radiators.

 

[slowmotion]

If you have somewhere to place/keep tanks in the loft, you really must stick with a condensing vented boiler.

Here's why....

Sealed systems always lose pressure of they are retrofitted because the old pipework has minute leaks. Choose a sealed system and expect to throw notes at a plumber when it loses pressure.

Combis have a really low efficiency rating for water heating. Installers love them because they are are easy to install and cost a lot. However, you pay the bills.

Your plumber will try and push you in the direction of a particular boiler manufacturer and model.. They do this because they get "points" from the manufacturer that can be redeemed for holidays/shopping/ fun. It's got nothing at all to do with how well his recommendation would suit your house.

 

[biggs682]

Our boiler broke down just before Christmas and thought we were going to have a new one , but thankfully it was just the igniter unit that needed replacement .

I know that doesnt help the op but i thought i would share it , and make sure whatever you do fit you can get spares for

 

[Bazzer]

IIRC Worcester/Bosch came out top in a recent Which? survey. Vailant came second.

An option to consider, assuming it is feasible/meets regulations, might be an unvented cyclinder in the loft, heated from your boiler or whatever source of heat you eventually decide upon and use this to fill your bath; whilst the the primary source of heating and water is used for all other heating/water requirements and can be elsewhere. We had a similar system installed several years ago, albeit utilising an upstairs bathroom and not a loft space, to give a decent head of water to a downstairs shower cabin.

 

[Globalti]

If you have somewhere to place/keep tanks in the loft, you really must stick with a condensing vented boiler.

Here's why....

Sealed systems always lose pressure of they are retrofitted because the old pipework has minute leaks. Choose a sealed system and expect to throw notes at a plumber when it loses pressure.

Combis have a really low efficiency rating for water heating. Installers love them because they are are easy to install and cost a lot. However, you pay the bills.

Your plumber will try and push you in the direction of a particular boiler manufacturer and model.. They do this because they get "points" from the manufacturer that can be redeemed for holidays/shopping/ fun. It's got nothing at all to do with how well his recommendation would suit your house.

This is the soundest advice in thie thread. A newly-pressurised old system will leak. If your flow is slow, why not just fit a booster pump on the hot supply from the cylinder and the cold supply from the tank? This will make showers much more enjoyable too. A condensing boiler is much more efficient than an old iron core boiler but more sensitive and more costly to fix though a good one should be OK as long as you get it serviced every year. OTOH a combi boiler (in my experience) is extremely sensitive and when you lose pressure it becomes temperamental. Get quotes from three plumbers and go fo the one you trust to do a decent job and give you good after-sales service and support, not the cheapest. In my book this means a well-established local family firm.

An advantage of storing hot water in a cylinder is that you get a nice warm airing cupboard. If you can afford it, get a bigger HW cylinder fitted. Ours was a piddling 80 litres (the house was built for a family of 6!) so we increased it to 160 litres, the issue being that a pump does empty the cylinder quite fast and three long showers will use up the stored water. A modern cylinder will have a bigger "one hour reheat" coil. I also fitted a second 160 litre cylinder in the attic in tandem with the existing, through which water flows before going to the main cylinder. The coil in that cylinder is heated by a 20 tube water panel I fitted on the roof, thus pre-heating the water entering the house cylinder, meaning the boiler has less work to do. In summer we get the target 60c from solar. If you're handy that's an easy DIY project and should cost you about £800; you can do it in bits as cash allows.

 

[BrumJim]

Ideal boilers are rather good

Current boiler is an Ideal boiler.

 

[The Jogger]

Ideal boilers are rather good

Ours was rather bad and the engineer said he wouldn't touch them with a barge pole.