New Windows

rodgy-dodge

An Exceptional Member
just wondered if any of you have had them fitted recently in accordance with the new energy efficient glass laws?

As some of you know we've had a new extension built. The new patio and kitchen window we had fitted doesn't seem right somehow! we are west facing and when the sun gets round they appear to have this milky look to them (as if you have cateracts) we had the guy who supplied and fitted them back he said they didn't look right, so then we had the manufacturer of the glass units out he said that this is the new efficiency glass! and yes it does look awful! He then went on to say he could fit the normal glass thats been used for years and is clear but it wouldn't have the energy efficiency required by the new laws. we checked this out with building regs and they quoted as long as its with in a certain figure :unsure: (which I can't remember) we could have the old style glass. we then got back onto the window supplier and he said he would change them for us, just waiting for a good day to do them. Its been a few months now and I know the weather's been atrocious but we still have heard knothing back. Husband is going to ring them today.
I'm wondering where we stand in line with not having them to pay for surely they should have told us about this glass when we signed up to them? otherwise if we had of known what to expect we would have asked the building regs people sooner before ordering them!

Anyone else had any problems?

Edit: forgot to mention this morning when we came down the Outside of the damn things where misted up ! I'd expect if it where cold enough for the inside, but I've never known the outside of these windows to mist! my last ones never nor the front of the house.
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
Edit: forgot to mention this morning when we came down the Outside of the damn things where misted up ! I'd expect if it where cold enough for the inside, but I've never known the outside of these windows to mist! my last ones never nor the front of the house.
That could be a sign of the raised efficiency of the insulation offered by the new glass. The outer glass has not been warmed enough by the heat from the room to prevent condensation from taking place.....

We have some high efficiency units and have not observed the milky effect that you have described.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
R-D,
There are not any 'new laws' as such.... the Building Regs are constantly being updated -there are requirements to improve the 'U' value of glazing under Building Regs [which aren't laws, they are advisory] and one of them is to improve the efficiency of windows and doors [you will have been told about 'U-values' when the person who designed your extension went through it's energy performance with you.... hopefully].

The glass everyone tends to use now on the inner leaf of doubled glazed units is Pilkington's "K" glass or it's equivalent, which uses a film coating ion the outer face of the inner leaf which does have a milky sheen to it but only when viewed from certain angles in direct sunlight.

The principle of "K" glass is that it allows the direct sunlight in [long wave radiation] but reflects the heat from within the room [short wave radiation] back into the room.

It would be unusual to be specifically told that the glass supplier was using K glass in his specification... and even less likely that you might not like the milky effect if seen in direct sunlight as it's fairly standard practice to use it as it's a benefit and the milky effect is not usually something that people notice or are concerned about- it's unfortunate that the sun's angle and the specific time of day that you were in the room coincided!

Any glass surface when it's cold will cause condensation to form when the air has a high relative humidity. The reason why your glazing gets condensation on the outside first thing in the mornings is because the moist outside air is warming up faster than the glass surface and the glass is still cold because it is efficiently stopping the heat from the room getting out during the night.... you should be pleased! Once the outside air temperature warms the glass up the condensation will soon disappear. The fact that your old ones never did this shows how much heat you were throwing away.
 
OP
rodgy-dodge

rodgy-dodge

An Exceptional Member
R-D,
There are not any 'new laws' as such.... the Building Regs are constantly being updated -there are requirements to improve the 'U' value of glazing under Building Regs [which aren't laws, they are advisory] and one of them is to improve the efficiency of windows and doors [you will have been told about 'U-values' when the person who designed your extension went through it's energy performance with you.... hopefully].

The glass everyone tends to use now on the inner leaf of doubled glazed units is Pilkington's "K" glass or it's equivalent, which uses a film coating ion the outer face of the inner leaf which does have a milky sheen to it but only when viewed from certain angles in direct sunlight.

The principle of "K" glass is that it allows the direct sunlight in [long wave radiation] but reflects the heat from within the room [short wave radiation] back into the room.

It would be unusual to be specifically told that the glass supplier was using K glass in his specification... and even less likely that you might not like the milky effect if seen in direct sunlight as it's fairly standard practice to use it as it's a benefit and the milky effect is not usually something that people notice or are concerned about- it's unfortunate that the sun's angle and the specific time of day that you were in the room coincided! THIS IS ALL DAY!

Any glass surface when it's cold will cause condensation to form when the air has a high relative humidity. The reason why your glazing gets condensation on the outside first thing in the mornings is because the moist outside air is warming up faster than the glass surface and the glass is still cold because it is efficiently stopping the heat from the room getting out during the night.... you should be pleased! Once the outside air temperature warms the glass up the condensation will soon disappear. The fact that your old ones never did this shows how much heat you were throwing away.
Thanks for the info. The windows are great when its dull! but as soon as the sun shines I just want to go and scrub the hell out of them it makes me want to cry... Is all this new glass like this? is there an allternative? would you recommend to just live with them? I was wondering if maybe they had the panels the wrong way round as I can never seem to get them clean. I don't use any chemicals on them to clean them only the water from my dehumidifier as I believe this to be distilled.
 
OP
rodgy-dodge

rodgy-dodge

An Exceptional Member
[QUOTE 2008727, member: 45"]We had A-rated glass in new patio doors a couple of years ago. No milkiness.[/quote]

But like archie-tect says it depends how the sun shines on them. Ours was noticeable straight away as we have sunlight on them all day...when it shines that is!
 

Berties

Fast and careful!
I've just redone a porch and conservatory On a rental property ,not noticed any milky look , the roof is also glass on both ,going to have to go and have a look today !
 
We've got K glass, it looks slightly more opaque occasionally from outside but I've never noticed anything from inside.
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
Thanks for the info. The windows are great when its dull! but as soon as the sun shines I just want to go and scrub the hell out of them it makes me want to cry... Is all this new glass like this? is there an allternative? would you recommend to just live with them? I was wondering if maybe they had the panels the wrong way round as I can never seem to get them clean. I don't use any chemicals on them to clean them only the water from my dehumidifier as I believe this to be distilled.
The film is on the cavity side of the inner sheet of glass so you can't damage it by cleaning. It's unfortunate if the room faces west as you'll get oblique sun hitting the glass at an angle from early afternoon onwards which will make the view out milky. There's nothing you can do but you will get used to it [we have K glass fitted on an east/west room with windows both sides and we stopped noticing it after a while... it's the equivalent of seeing all the dust-motes floating in the air round your room on a sunny day].

If it is too much to bear you can get it replaced but every sealed double glazed unit would need to be measured and re-made from scratch. It would cost the contractor a small fortune to do it which I'd be boggled he'd be prepared to do at no cost to you, since it's a much better specification having K glass. In addition if any glass in the windows is less than 800mm from floor level or next to a door [or french door] then every inner pane has to be either toughened or laminated glass to prevent someone from falling through or smashing the glass by accident. Replacing such sealed units would add considerably to the cost.

One benefit from the outside is K glass is slightly more reflective [unless you've got lights on!]. Just think of the heating fuel you're saving having it fitted!
 
OP
rodgy-dodge

rodgy-dodge

An Exceptional Member
Husband has just phoned to tell me they're going to replace them. Must admit I would rather see out of my windows clearly than be frustrated with wanting to clean them all the time. I don't think I will get used to them regardless. We both agree We'll have more 'efficent' ones, once they make them clear enough to see out of.
 
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