Noisy cassette

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lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
I'm getting really fed up with the buzzing/rattling that comes from the Surly's cassette. I've tried everything I can to eliminate it, including:

  1. Make sure the cassette is tight
  2. Make sure the cassette and chain are compatible
  3. Make sure the cassette and derailleur are compatible
  4. Make sure the chain is the correct length
  5. Make sure the cables are clean, lubricated, not to short (Jagwire cables)
  6. Make sure the derailleur (limit and b screws) is adjusted correctly
  7. Index the damn gears - over and over again, with the same result
For the sake of clarity, I'm calling the largest sprocket "1" and the smallest sprocket "9". I have a triple chainset.

It's OK on the small chain ring using sprockets 1-5, although there's a slight rattle on sprocket 2 that I'd rather wasn't there.

It's OK on the middle chain ring using sprockets 7-9. As you move towards sprocket 1, it starts to get progressively noisier, moving from buzzy on sprockets 5-6 to rattly as you get to sprocket 4 and below.

It's noisy on any sprocket on the big chain ring, although it's noisiest on sprocket 5 and gradually gets quieter as you move towards sprocket 9. (I only use sprockets 5-9 on the big ring.)

Indexing, such as it is, is a delicate art. If I have the cable a fraction of a turn too loose, it sticks when changing from sprocket 7 to 6, or sprocket 6 to 5. If I have it a fraction of a turn too tight, there is a regular "ping" on sprocket 2 as the chain starts to catch on sprocket 1, but doesn't quite move onto it.

Cassette and chain are both the same age, the chain isn't showing any sign of stretching, and I've had this problem since they were both new.

I took a photo of the rear mech this morning because the only thing I'm left with is a bent rear mech hangar, although the bike has never been crashed, dropped, knocked or laid down on that side. (I'm very careful with the rear mech.) I'm aware that Surly's manufacturing process lacks some accuracy, however - I had to file the left rear dropout because it was too tight for the wheel hub to fit - so it's entirely possible the hangar was bent from new.

It doesn't look obviously bent to me, but something looks seriously not right in this photo.

rear derailleur.jpg

Any thoughts?
 

MrJamie

Oaf on a Bike
Is it me or do the smallest, say sprockets 7-9 not look parallel to the bigger sprockets?

I'm guessing it would be insultingly patronising to suggest that it might be the front derailleur that the chains making noise against? :smile:
 
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lulubel

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
Is it me or do the smallest, say sprockets 7-9 not look parallel to the bigger sprockets?

I'm guessing it would be insultingly patronising to suggest that it might be the front derailleur that the chains making noise against? :smile:

It would be, but I''ll forgive you. :biggrin: It does rub slightly at both ends of the cassette in the middle ring, which I think is one of the difficulties of getting a triple set up properly on a road bike. I just don't tend to use those 2 gears.

Not sure about the sprockets. Everything's tight and the spacers are in the right place, so they should be fine. It looks like I lined the camera up with sprocket 1, so they probably do look a bit off by the time you get to that end of the cassette.

Have you got a side on picture?

I assume this has been ridden a bit to bed everything in?

No. I can take one tomorrow when we've got some daylight, though - all I get is flash reflection off the metal if I try to take close-ups at night.

Is 4,000km enough?

What I noticed in my photo is that the derailleur doesn't look anywhere near in line with the sprocket that the chain's actually on, despite the fact that that's the sprocket it put it on at the last change. Does that strike anyone as weird?
 

boydj

Legendary Member
Location
Paisley
My first thought looking at the picture is that the cable from frame to mech looks to be a bit on the short side which may be adding a bit of extra friction. Of course, that may just be the way the picture has been taken, and a side-on view may show that's not the case.
 
My first thought looking at the picture is that the cable from frame to mech looks to be a bit on the short side which may be adding a bit of extra friction. Of course, that may just be the way the picture has been taken, and a side-on view may show that's not the case.

That's what I thought may be a contributing factor but could also be the perspective of pic...
 
I have encountered something very similar on my better half's touring / commuter bike, I look after 11 bikes and do all the work / fettling on them so I was fairly sure I could fix it. Like you I eliminated all the obvious although in this case there had not been a problem since it was new. The solution was to change the gear cable outer, the rear mech cable was sticking at different tensions and was producing exactly the same symptoms you have. Even a badly cut cable outer can cause poor shifting problems. Good luck.
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
What I noticed in my photo is that the derailleur doesn't look anywhere near in line with the sprocket that the chain's actually on, despite the fact that that's the sprocket it put it on at the last change. Does that strike anyone as weird?

Yes, especially combined with the extreme delicate reaction to cable tension.

If I were you I would put it on a stand, put front on middle ring and shift along the rear and see whether upper jockey wheel lines up straight under some sprockets and not the other (after setting rear cable tension by centering jockey/mech on a middleish sprocket). If that is the case you have an indexing/cabling issue. It could be poor/sticky cabling, or e.g. cable clamped on the rear mech wrong.
 

bianchi1

Guru
Location
malverns
Could be the free hub? Happened on my mavics.

Indexing probs can often be cured by changing all your cables, outers and inners. I was ready to buy a new rear derailleur once when my brilliant local bike shop mechanic said I should try a £5 quid cable change..has been trouble free ever since.
 
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lulubel

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
Here are a couple more photos. I wasn't exactly sure what people wanted, so I've taken one from each side.

My first thought looking at the picture is that the cable from frame to mech looks to be a bit on the short side which may be adding a bit of extra friction. Of course, that may just be the way the picture has been taken, and a side-on view may show that's not the case.

I spent a lot of time researching cable length before I cut it, and everything I read said it should be whatever length is required to enter the derailleur in a straight line. I also compared against all our other bikes at the time, and was happy with what I did. I think it is very hard to tell from the first photo, though.

If I were you I would put it on a stand, put front on middle ring and shift along the rear and see whether upper jockey wheel lines up straight under some sprockets and not the other (after setting rear cable tension by centering jockey/mech on a middleish sprocket). If that is the case you have an indexing/cabling issue. It could be poor/sticky cabling, or e.g. cable clamped on the rear mech wrong.

I've done that, and it looks like it lines up perfectly to me.

Could be the free hub? Happened on my mavics.

Sorry, I forgot to mention the freehub in my first post. I've already eliminated that.

Regarding cables, if all else fails, I'll try replacing both the inner and outer, although I don't think that's the problem. I was very careful when cutting the cables, and bought an expensive pair of Park Tools cable cutters exactly for that purpose.

However, having used some cables other than Jagwire now, I've realised I don't like the Jagwire cables very much - the outers are extremely stiff and don't like to go where you want them - and I'm much happier with the ones I can get from my lbs.

side1.jpg side2.jpg
 

bianchi1

Guru
Location
malverns
I would definitely go for a longer loop of cable outer, cuts down on friction.

Also do you not have a screw adjuster where the cable meets the rear derailleur? Not hugely clear in the photo
 
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lulubel

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
I would definitely go for a longer loop of cable outer, cuts down on friction.

Also do you not have a screw adjuster where the cable meets the rear derailleur? Not hugely clear in the photo

If I use a longer loop of cable, the cable will enter the derailleur at an angle, which I've read in a lot of places is wrong (and I can understand why). When I initially fitted it, I started with a longer piece of cable, and cut it down until it entered the derailleur straight. This might be due to the Jagwire outers being very stiff.

No, I don't have a screw adjuster there. I didn't see the point of one, when I have one on the down tube, and I'd never used the one at the derailleur on my MTB.
 

RecordAceFromNew

Swinging Member
Location
West London
I've done that, and it looks like it lines up perfectly to me.

If the mech top jockey is lining up perfectly with the rear sprockets for every gear then it can't be the indexing or the cabling.

One other thing it may be the angle but your last photo above looks a little odd. Are you sure the rear mech's B screw is catching the stop on the dropout (the lowest point in pic below)?

155FF21C101B4772A986A097B14D5DCB.jpg
 
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