Oi! Plod!

[Linford]

I can't for the life of me think why you've not got a sound legal opinion what with the informative and friendly thread title anarl

Horses are the slowest moving of the quoted vehicles and the only ones with self determination and an instinct towards self preservation that may well override an inattentive rider accidentally piloting them onto the fast lane of the M62 at 7 mph whilst deeply engrossed in a tricky level on angry birds. It is also the easiest to communicate with an inattentive pilot and has the quickest brakes if it was plodding slowly towards you on autopilot.

Dunno if its in law or not but if so then it is a definite piece of overkill IMO

Would agree with this. You can sit astride a horse and operate a phone, and the horse will be looking around even if you aren't. You can't do this on a bicycle, on foot or a motor vehicle as they all need your own concentration to keep you on the path. In fairness to the rider, they will feel the changes in the movement, and it would be very unlikely that they would have attempted this if the horse was green in that environment. The rider would also have heard you coming long before you saw them in the distance if being approached by anything with an engine.

 

[Dan B]

is a horse classed as a vehicle?

I would be surprised if it were. There is no legal definition of 'vehicle' that I'm aware of, so we have to rely on the usual meaning of the word, but if we go back to the days before the motor car, legislation would have been drafted to consider horses, cattle, carriages, etc as separate categories of road user. The bicycle's status in law as a vehicle derives from case law (I forget which case it was) in which it was decided that a bicycle was in law a carriage, and - I assume - when carriages became horseless carriages and started to be called vehicles instead, bikes came along for the ride. But that doesn't mean that all other classes of road user (which should rightfully include pedestrians!) are also now vehicles as well

 

[Crankarm]

You didn't see the silly mare, I'd rather get the phone number of the horse.

You could have said to her "Why the long face?"

 

[Dan B]

Really? I know of definitions for Mechanically Propelled Vehicle and Motor Vehicle (and I've also now found the bit in the RTA 1988 which defines motor vehicles/trailers as carriages for the purpose of any act that refers to carriages) but I've never found a definition for plain ordinary "vehicle". Can you point me at one/two/several of them? I've been wondering for years whether and to what extent traffic law applies to roller skaters

 

[Dan B]

One example is the definition of 'vehicle' in Sections 1B and 62(1) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994. However, that applies to that Act.

(1B)In the following provisions of this Act “vehicle” means—
(a)a mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(b)any thing (whether or not it is a vehicle) that has been, but has ceased to be, a mechanically propelled vehicle.

That reads less like a definition of 'vehicle' and more like a restriction of the usual definition for (as you say) the purpose of the Act - it doesn't really shed any light on what that usual definition might be. Thanks anyway

 

[SquareDaff]

Does a horse rider pay "road tax"? If not then she wasn't entitled to use the highway let alone a phone!!

 

[Mrbubba]

Does a horse rider pay "road tax"? If not then she wasn't entitled to use the highway let alone a phone!!

Depends if they also own a car, similar to cyclists no doubt.

 

[Bromptonaut]

The legislation that allows drivers of motor vehicles to be penalised for use of a phone is specific to that class of vehicle. It was introduced to remove the uncertainty in use of careless or not in control legislation.

Plod witnessing such use on bike or horse could issue a NIP on basis of lack of control but would need to prove it - maybe to big a challenge in majority of cases

 

[SquareDaff]

Plod witnessing such use on bike or horse could issue a NIP on basis of lack of control but would need to prove it - maybe to big a challenge in majority of cases

Partly serious - partly tongue in cheek - but I'm intrigued to know the answer. I can understand cars and bikes but as the horse has it's own brain and is trained to walk along road sides technically isn't the horse in control and the rider just the passenger? As such aren't they permitted to use a mobile?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Partly serious - partly tongue in cheek - but I'm intrigued to know the answer. I can understand cars and bikes but as the horse has it's own brain and is trained to walk along road sides technically isn't the horse in control and the rider just the passenger? As such aren't they permitted to use a mobile?

I'd guess the presence of bridle, bit, blinkers and reigns, together with horse training, imply that rider has control to stop start and steer.

There may be a defence if horse goes off on a mission but I don't think that covers a rider not paying attention.

 

[Dan B]

Partly serious - partly tongue in cheek - but I'm intrigued to know the answer. I can understand cars and bikes but as the horse has it's own brain and is trained to walk along road sides technically isn't the horse in control and the rider just the passenger? As such aren't they permitted to use a mobile?

You mean the horse should be banned from using a hand-held mobile phone?

[edit: ok ok, hoof-held. Bunch of neigh sayers ]

 

[Brains]

You mean the horse should be banned from using a hand-held mobile phone?

[edit: ok ok, hoof-held. Bunch of neigh sayers ]

Put it up for a vote.
The yeahs to one side, the neighs to the other

 

[SquareDaff]

I now have visions of a horse walking down the road on three legs with the other holding a mobile to its ear!! Alternatively it could use a hoof free headset!

 

[Linford]

I'd guess the presence of bridle, bit, blinkers and reigns, together with horse training, imply that rider has control to stop start and steer.

There may be a defence if horse goes off on a mission but I don't think that covers a rider not paying attention.

If you maintain contact with the bit (through the reins) for any length of time, the horse will do one of two things....shake its head to tell you to stop pulling on them, or ignore your instruction through them.

Reins are only one way of communicating a command to them. My daughter trained one of ours to come to an instant full stop when she takes her feet out of the stirrups (for gymkhana games when they jump on and off to pick up a tennis ball half way around)
It works very well

Leg aids are also used to get them to go in a direction...(leg aid being pressure exerted by the riders knee which the horse is trained to move away from)

 

[EltonFrog]

Here's the thing. A Woman is riding a horse, and waking another on a public highway, a country lane with a 60mph speed limit, no white lines in the road , she's got a her head down looking at the phone and not looking where she's going. I unintentionally startled her when I rode pass in the opposite direction, she was not paying attention. That can not right can it?