One for the London lot...

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wafflycat

New Member
"Rogue cyclists who flout the law while riding throughout London are to be fined by Westminster Council under plans to crackdown on so-called “Lycra louts”."

Telegraph Article 07 December 2009, by Andrew Hough.

"In the first such scheme in the country, council staff, instead of police, could hand out penalty notices to cyclists who are caught breaking the law such riding through red lights or on pavements, reports said.
Under the plans, city inspectors, who already licensing, noise and waste laws, would be handed powers to issue infringement notices amid claims cyclists were the source for the largest amounts of complaints."

"It has not been disclosed how much the fines would be, but the council has proposed a £100 fine previously, up from the current £30 which was seen as too lenient.
Figures show that of the 30,000 cyclists that enter the council’s zone every day, about a fifth break the “Highway Code” by jumping lights, riding on pavements or ignoring one way signs.
While the powers already exist in the legislation permission from the Metropolitan Police would be required so that council officials could enforce them.
The plan, still to be ratified by the council, has been given qualified support by bike groups, but concerns were raised that the powers needed to be enforced by police.
Council officials said proposals had come about after concerns were raised about the growing number of so called “Lycra Louts” breaking the law that put other motorists and cyclists in danger.
“So many people are frustrated with it,” said Angela Harvey, chairman of Westminster’s scrutiny committee, which is behind the proposal.
“We’re always getting little old ladies who are knocked down and abused by a cyclist, who leaves them on the ground as they ride away.”
Mrs Harvey told The Times that the council wanted to encourage more people to cycle while at the same time ensuring pedestrian safety.
“The police are the only people who have the ability to enforce this issue and they just aren’t taking this seriously enough,” she said.
“There are more of our officers on the street than there are police at any given time, so it is a sensible solution.”
Tom Bogdanowicz, of the London Cycling Campaign, gave conditional support to the plan to help reduce the “unacceptably high number of deaths on our roads”.
“But our enforcement of moving traffic offences needs to be carried out by trained police or police community support officers,” he told the paper.
“They are the best qualified to enforce the regulations on pavement cycling and most other offences as they have the training and authority to do their work.”
Department of Transport figures show that 820 cyclists were killed or seriously injured in Britain in the three months to June – a rise of almost a fifth.
Transport for London statistics show a 107 per cent increase in cycle journeys throughout the capital since 2000, with a nine per cent rise since May last year.
Reports have previously suggested that in 2007 just 147 cyclists were fined for riding on the pavement."
 

upsidedown

Waiting for the great leap forward
Location
The middle bit
wafflycat said:
Figures show that of the 30,000 cyclists that enter the council’s zone every day, about a fifth break the “Highway Code” by jumping lights, riding on pavements or ignoring one way signs.


Sounds like a great idea to me, the council by me have been successfully prosecuting people for dropping cigarette butts, so they have the teeth, and the appetite for it. I'm firmly in the "if you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to worry about" camp.
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
I'm all for it with a resounding yes. Also cyclists riding without lights and wearing black/dark clothing after dark should be included witihin the crackdown. However, I'm disturbed and concerned that:

1) a £100 fine is considerably more than a driver gets for using a mobile whilst driving, so is a little disproportionate. Perhaps £30 is more reasonable.

2) At the foot of the article the correlation of the sharp increase in numbers of cyclists killed being due to them riding on pavements, jumping red lights and wearing Lycra. Noooooo!! This is clearly barking. I don't think any cyclist has been killed whilst riding on the pavement or has killed anyone AFAIK. The last paragraph of the article is more inaccurate sloppy journalism. I suspect or know that nearly every single one of those cyclist's sad deaths has occurred whilst cycling on the roads and being knocked down by trucks, cars or other motor vehicles not by riding on the pavements. The numbers may yet rise if more POBSOs are now on the roads.

3) Penalities for drivers who injure or kill pedestrians or cyclists will not be increased. They will continue to get off with a slap on the wrists not facing any charges or prosecution.

4) Will children be exempt? Could any fine be challenged under Health & Safety legislation as the frequency of deaths on the roads for cyclists is much much higher than on the pavements? The solution is to make the roads a lot safer before pushing a lot of cyclists on to them. I don't condone cyclists (except chavs) who ride on pavements but can see why they do it.
 

swee'pea99

Squire
"“So many people are frustrated with it,” said Angela Harvey, chairman of Westminster’s scrutiny committee, which is behind the proposal.
“We’re always getting little old ladies who are knocked down and abused by a cyclist, who leaves them on the ground as they ride away.”"

No you're not, you lying hound.

Make no mistake, this has nothing - or very little - to do with protecting little old ladies from the lycra-fiends. It's just another nice little earner for the council. Just like parking tickets: introduced at least nominally to help control traffic flows; long since enforced primarily to provide revenues.

Parking fines generated more than £650m for London councils over the past three years, figures have shown....
....Westminster had the highest figure of £41m while Greenwich recorded the lowest at £1.7m.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7480814.stm

I would love to see Angela Harvey cite one single instance of an old dear knocked down and abused. Just one. Should be easy, since it 'always' happens.
 

Norm

Guest
[quote name='swee'pea99']I would love to see Angela Harvey cite one single instance of an old dear knocked down and abused. Just one. Should be easy, since it 'always' happens.[/QUOTE]
Maybe a Freedom of Information request. :wacko: Get her to put up or shut up.
 

brokenbetty

Über Member
Location
London
swee said:
Luckily for us they have picked an easily avoidable cash-raising mechanism.

Let's foil their dastardly plan by waiting at red lights and not riding bikes on the pavement - that'll show 'em!
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
They will have to catch me to fine me. muahahahaha
 

shunter

Senior Member
Location
N Ireland
Crankarm said:
I'm all for it with a resounding yes. Also cyclists riding without lights and wearing black/dark clothing after dark should be included witihin the crackdown. .

Don't agree. For starters Altura Night Vision jacket comes in black with hi-vis stripes. Motorcyclist are not compelled to wear yellow. Hi-vis yellow bibs make no difference. I wore a beaconwear hi-vis yellow jacket with flashing stripes and it made no difference to the van driver who pushed me over into the hard shoulder. I'm not even sure if yellow jackets are that visible on unlit roads anyway.

Good front and rear lights make all the difference - one flashing and one continuous front and rear. I notice yellow / orange clothed cyclists because I always look out for cyclists as I also notice dark clothed one who have adequate lighting. Where hi-vis clothes make a difference is when there are no lights on the bike or small puny ones.

If you want a crackdown on clothing what about school kids standing in the middle of the road in a hatched area with a dark uniform, folk walking unpathed country roads with no lights.

If people feel safer wearing light coloured jackets etc then fair enough but don't start giving them fines.

Maybe give councils power to fine cardrivers with only one headlight or taillight or no brake lights or having their fog lights on permanently. They'll not be so quick to pick on them.
 
What happens if the offending cyclist just rides on? Are the council staff equipped with bikes/scooters/motorbikes and allowed to give chase and apprehend? If not, it's going to be a matter of handig out tickets to the guys and girls who stop when ordered to do so from afar, while hardcore road hogs just continue their cycle ride.

That said, it's a good thing if rules of the road are upheld.
 

davidg

Well-Known Member
Location
London
I cant believe it is only a fifth that breaks the law, must be more than that from experience!
 

Greenbank

Über Member
Crankarm said:
2) At the foot of the article the correlation of the sharp increase in numbers of cyclists killed being due to them riding on pavements, jumping red lights and wearing Lycra. Noooooo!! This is clearly barking. I don't think any cyclist has been killed whilst riding on the pavement or has killed anyone AFAIK.

There have been 3 or 4 pedestrians killed by cyclists on the pavement in the last couple of years or so. Here are just a couple:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7098383.stm
http://road.cc/node/6442

Over a longer period (10 years) it averages out to about 1 person killed every year by a cyclist.

As for RLJing causing deaths, it was a few years ago that someone (ironically a keen cyclist and member of the Tandem club) was knocked over by an RLJing cyclist crossing the road outside Clapham Junction station. He died in hospital about a week later without ever regaining consciousness. The RLJer didn't bother stopping to check he was ok and was never caught.

So, yes, I can't wait for Westminster to start doing this. My commute takes me right through Parliament Square and there's plenty of numptyish behaviour on show by cyclists. Roll it out to all London boroughs...
 

gaz

Cycle Camera TV
Location
South Croydon
Greenbank said:
So, yes, I can't wait for Westminster to start doing this. My commute takes me right through Parliament Square and there's plenty of numptyish behaviour on show by cyclists. Roll it out to all London boroughs...
I saw plenty of numpties on the road this morning, i felt like hanging my jersey up after seeing some things being done on a bike.
 
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