Opinions Please

[PaulSB]

I'm not a commuter, retired in fact, and this is a genuine request for opinions not a search for disagreement - that is of no interest to me.

My son was driving to work today and was in a collision with a cyclist. This is the situation. On an urban road, 30 mph limit, laid out as bus lane, two traffic lanes and central reservation then, obviously the same layout on the other side of the road.

My son is waiting stationary to turn right through one of many gaps in the central reservation. The traffic is not moving and two vehicles stop before the gap to allow him to turn right. Both vehicles are high-sided and he cannot see through them. He turns right from a standing start, as he crosses the bus lane a cyclist hits the passenger door just beside the door pillar. My son could not see the cyclist nor the cyclist him as the high-sided vehicles blocked their views.

The cyclist goes over the bonnet but is unhurt. Obviously he will be bruised and aching. One fork on the bike is snapped. The car door is dented and has a 3" scratch. The cyclist going over the bonnet and snapped fork suggest he was travelling at speed.

I would be interested to hear opinions as to who is at fault here. Driver, cyclist or both? If both then what % of blame would be attached to either?

 

[classic33]

Can cyclist use the bus lane.
Was there any other traffic in the bus lane when he was crossing.
He didn't start moving, to turn, following being "flashed" by one of the drivers. This signal means nothing more than "I am here".

We've a duty of care on the roads, just as motorists have.

 

[ColinJ]

I'm not a driver, but I reckon "if you can't see, stay where you are"! I think your son should have waved 'thanks' to the other drivers but stayed where he was.

 

[mjr]

Shared fault. However, while the cyclist should not have overtaken at a speed so fast they could not stop within what they could see to be clear, the driver should not have gone broadside into a bus lane unless they were damn sure it was clear and I think insurers will probably put more liability on them as they were making the more unusual movement.

I think I'd suggest your son accepts anything less than 100% liability as a win, learns from it to move more cautiously into spaces you can't see will be clear for the whole time you need it and thanks his lucky stars it was a bike not a bus hurtling along the lane. I've seen buses in the middle of Bristol make a mess of cars that moved into a bus lane against priority.

 

[Seevio]

Unfortunately the son has pulled into a traffic lane blind and has been unlucky enough that it was being used at that moment. The good news (for the son) is that he was struck by a bicycle and not a bus.

The principle of making sure you can stop in what you can see to be clear does not apply to the cyclist as i assume the bus lane was clear until a car pulled into it.

 

[classic33]

Unfortunately the son has pulled into a traffic lane blind and has been unlucky enough that it was being used at that moment. The good news (for the son) is that he was struck by a bicycle and not a bus.

The principle of making sure you can stop in what you can see to be clear does not apply to the cyclist as i assume the bus lane was clear until a car pulled into it.

And if something was pulling out at that point, onto the road from the right side, would the cyclist still expected not to have to stop.

When on the road, we as cyclists are traffic. The same as every other vehicle on the roads.

 

[Seevio]

The onus is on the vehicle entering a lane to make sure they can do so safely. While one should always be wary of the potential for things to pull into your path suddenly without enough warning, this does not affect fault.

As an example, if you were travelling along a clear road, are you obliged to slow to a crawl each time you approach someone waiting to join the road in case they just pull out?

 

[mjr]

The onus is on the vehicle entering a lane to make sure they can do so safely. While one should always be wary of the potential for things to pull into your path suddenly without enough warning, this does not affect fault.

As an example, if you were travelling along a clear road, are you obliged to slow to a crawl each time you approach someone waiting to join the road in case they just pull out?

Not obliged to crawl, but it's a damn good idea to decelerate, cover the brakes and move as far away from them as safely possible to give yourself time to react if they do jump forwards. Have you not learned to drive or was your instructor rubbish and not teach this or what?

 

[classic33]

Driving lesson/test to ride a bicycle on UK roads?

 

[mjr]

Driving lesson/test to ride a bicycle on UK roads?

Hence, asking if they haven't learned, as they're not required to. Also, I suspect they were posting about driving, as self-preservation instincts usually makes most riders slow and move to lane centre past a car waiting to pull out.

 

[icowden]

I agree with @mjr on this one. There doesn't seem to be a clear "fault" given that neither party could see the other, neither expected to see the other, and neither was able to stop in time to avoid the collision.

Insurance wise, again I think the "fault" will favour the cyclist - who may not be insured anyway, in which case all of the insurance burden will fall to the driver anyway.

I also agree with @mjr re assessment of hazards (I know twice in one post - who'd have thought?!). The main road near me is a 30mph road. There is a section which has numerous left and right junctions, as well as access to a parade of shops. Because of the propensity of people to pull out, it is a very unwise driver indeed who does not slow down a bit and cover the brake. You are "obliged" to drive in a way that a careful and considerate driver might drive. Otherwise if a bad thing happens you may find that the Police will be putting points on your license...

 

[classic33]

A cyclist has the same responsibilities, when approach a junction. Be prepared to slow down, possibly even stopping. Assuming he should have been using the bus lane.

 

[steveindenmark]

Your son is at fault. You dont drive where you cannot see and you dont take instructions from other road users. He should have remained stationary until he could see the way was clear.

 

[sleuthey]

When I learnt to drive the instructor used the phrase "creap and peep" at blind manoeuvres, IE edge out a foot at a time. From your description your son didn't do this and assuming the local authorities permit cycling in your bus lane I I would admit full liability if I had been the driver.

 

[PaulSB]

Thanks for all the comments. Very useful to read other perspectives. Overall my view is my lad was crossing the bike lane and is therefore responsible for the collision. I do though feel the cyclist, though not directly responsible, was travelling too fast and not exercising enough caution at that particular moment. This contributed to the collision. Personally I wouldn't be riding in that manner under those conditions.

The image shows the bike's forks. Judging by the break they are carbon fibre from PlanetX? Anyone know more on this? I'm trying to advise my lad in a decision on losing his NCB or paying for the forks. This presumes the cyclist choses to take it further. I would do so.

An excellent point from @classic33 re can the cyclist use the bus lane? My lad is going to check signage and road markings at lunchtime. I imagine, but don't know, if cyclists are not permitted in the bike lane the situation changes though my son should perhaps have anticipated that as well?

Thanks for all the helpful remarks. Keep them coming.