Organic 'has no health benefits'

[wafflycat]

Oh I know that *some* 'chemicals' are allowed on organic. The range is exceedinly limited and they are not routinely applied. Indeed I know from one organic farmer (Soil Association accredited) that he can't even use those unless he has prior permission from the SA and he has to justify the use of a 'chemical' So overall there is far, far less dependence upon 'chemical' fertilisers/pesticides/herbicides etc than in modern industrial farming. Organic famring methods are sustainable far more than our more industrial non-organic farming.

*I use the term 'chemical' as everything is a chemical, even good old water, but I'm simply using the term in a loose way to differentiate conveniently between organic & non-organic farming methods.

 

[Helly79]

My husband has M.E and find his symptoms seem to be worse when he is subjected to man made chemical. So we try to use organic foods, and also eco friendly cleaning products. So I do believe that organic foods have a health benefit and I don't care what the research says as organic food is far better!

 

[Cathryn]

I've always been dubious about the benefits of organic, and can't taste any difference. But the eco benefits are undeniable and thus the main reason to buy organic.

The problem with organic is size of yield...it doesn't produce enough crops to feed the world. That's something they need to look at.

 

[661-Pete]

Well, when we grow our courgettes in the garden (splendid crop on the go and filling up our fridge at the moment! ) we have to ring the very young plants with blue slug pellets for a few days after planting out. I insist on it, without that we'd have no courgette plants at all come the summer. We've tried all the 'natural' slug deterrents and none of them work.

My wife says that, sadly, that makes our courgettes 'officially' non-organic. Is she right? All I can say is, organic or not, they taste ....

 

[Crankarm]

Yup grow your own is the best way. But then you realise what a battle it is against slugs, snails, black fly green fly, caterpillars, birds, lady birds and general bugs, insects and grubs all wanting a piece of your succulents and juicies. Probably green house is the best option but £££££ for set up but once built you would start to reap the rewards. Titchmarsh or Swift never says it's open warfare, just beds and borders of immaculately prepared plants and lawns without a single weed.

This report is a load of bullsh1t. Sperm counts have dropped drastically in the last 50 years and it is all down to the fertilisers and pesticides used on intensively farmed crops which gets into milk and diary products, and meats. The waters are polluted the fish are poisoned with heavy metals. We're all doomed to a sterile wasteland .

 

[dellzeqq]

I've always been dubious about the benefits of organic, and can't taste any difference. But the eco benefits are undeniable and thus the main reason to buy organic.

The problem with organic is size of yield...it doesn't produce enough crops to feed the world. That's something they need to look at.

Feeding the world would be a whole lot easier if we ate less meat. Huge swathes of European, North American and even South American farmland are given over to producing animal feed.

 

[Bigtwin]

Feeding the world would be a whole lot easier if we had less Chinese. Huge swathes of European, North American and even South American farmland could be given over to producing loverly jubberly animal meat while we grew vegtable rubbish in far off places.

Solve a lot of problems.

 

[661-Pete]

As it happens, I was just about to fill a bag with onions at the supermarket today, when my wife pointed out the country of origin. "NZ". New Zealand, FFS!? Onions? Can't anyone grow onions in a Northern hemisphere summer?

Sadly, buying organic at the supermarket won't solve that little problem, not at all. At least Riverford, while they can't claim that everything is from 'just round the corner', while it's true they are big players and have a nationwide distribution network: they do try to source as much as they can in the UK, and rarely from beyond Europe. When you buy supermarket organic, it could have been airfreighted ('spacefreighted'?) from Mars for all you know...

But Riverford have admitted that this year's UK onion harvest has been disastrous and they can't keep up with demand.

Ah well. In the end we settled for a pack of (non-organic) Spanish onions at slightly higher cost than the NZ ones. But they're at least European.

 

[mangaman]

As it happens, I was just about to fill a bag with onions at the supermarket today, when my wife pointed out the country of origin. "NZ". New Zealand, FFS!? Onions? Can't anyone grow onions in a Northern hemisphere summer?

Sadly, buying organic at the supermarket won't solve that little problem, not at all. At least Riverford, while they can't claim that everything is from 'just round the corner', while it's true they are big players and have a nationwide distribution network: they do try to source as much as they can in the UK, and rarely from beyond Europe. When you buy supermarket organic, it could have been airfreighted ('spacefreighted'?) from Mars for all you know...

But Riverford have admitted that this year's UK onion harvest has been disastrous and they can't keep up with demand.

Ah well. In the end we settled for a pack of (non-organic) Spanish onions at slightly higher cost than the NZ ones. But they're at least European.

Nothing libellous i hope - but I used to get a Riverford veg box.

Quite often it had French stuff in and I changed to a local one as soon as one became available.

My view - as I said - was less of an organic food obsession and more of a "sensible" food obsession. By this I mean eating local veg / game (especially wild rabbit or muntjac deer which farmers will sell for almost nothing as they consider them vermin) / cheap cuts of locally reared meat and less meat generally

As Dell and Crankarm have said - eat less meat / grow your own if you can

If you can't buy local. If the local onion harvest is not up to scratch then eat something else.

I've found eating only local veg and a bit of local meat has improved my cooking skills no end. So if the onion crop fails you can cook something else.

You have to make ends meet with what's been produced around you - and that's the way it should be (and it's cheaper)

 

[wafflycat]

This evening's meal at Chez Wafflycat was a stirfry. B abit of English beef thinly sliced. Homegrown carrots, green beans, yellow beans, patty-pan squash, English onions, noodles & some hoisin sauce. So most of it was local - very local - my garden & next-door's garden.

As for local stuff being cheaper - where I am local meat is NOT cheaper. Indeed it's more expensive. There's a farm shop up the road from me and as much as I'd like to source all my meat from there I simply cannot afford it as it is *expensive* I try to buy local when I can, failing that, UK, failing that European. I also try to buy seasonal veg - and am growing most of my own. All eggs are produced in the back garden by my four Lovely Laydeez

Edit: and I haven't bought a loaf of bread since mid-May.. all made at home.

 

[Crankarm]

Occasionally a nice pheasant/rabbit turns up on the road. Saw one the other day. Stopped to have a gander. Looked like it had just been freshly killed by a car. It's right wing was a bit askew, but apart from that it looked in the fullness of health. It's neck looked very limp and it's eye stared motionlessly up at me. But alas my panniers were a bit full and I had gone shopping the night before so the fridge was a bit full. Plus all that plucking.... The last time I picked one up and got it home there were feathers everywhere. Had to hoover the kitchen in the end. Still this one looked like it would prove a delicious meal for some one or something...... Although it would have been nicer had it still been alive flying about. So on this occasion I moved it onto the safety and peace of the grass verge and continued on my way feeling satisfied with myself I had removed it from the tarmac and a certain pounding by cars and lorries.

 

[Noodley]

....noodles & some hoisin sauce...

That would be enough to send most women over the edge

 

[mangaman]

As for local stuff being cheaper - where I am local meat is NOT cheaper. Indeed it's more expensive. There's a farm shop up the road from me and as much as I'd like to source all my meat from there I simply cannot afford it as it is *expensive* I try to buy local when I can, failing that, UK, failing that European. I also try to buy seasonal veg - and am growing most of my own. All eggs are produced in the back garden by my four Lovely Laydeez

I think that's really sad and disappointing. Sadly it reflects our country's attitude to food I think.

Wild rabbits are 2 for £5 in my local farm shop - and obviously they are local and have had a wild and free life before some bugger shot them (ie they didn;t spend their life locked in some barn.

Montjac deers are often a problem for farmers - I know you live in Norfolk , and I don;t know the situation there. I went to a Sussex farmer I buy some rabbits from and he sold me a Monyjac saddle for £5 - effectively like a reasonable quantity of fillet steak

I fed 7 peope at a barbie with the Montjqac

I can get roughly the same meat off 2 decent sized rabbits as one and a half chickens (depends on the sex/age of the rabbit). Obviously £5 worth of chicken gets you the most poorly kept chicken possible.

My entire veg bill never (except in etreme situatons) goes over £10

It's easy to preach though - I really enjoy cooking and sourcing food.

I'm lucky enough to have the time and resources to do it

But cheap / local / healthy food I believe is everwhere (certainly in rural areas)

 

[Luna Corona]

I work in the health food industry. I get fed up (if not pissed off) by those dear customers who come into the shop and ask for something specifically that isn't organic when there is a choice, because they don't "believe" in it. One gentleman - shopping for someone else, granted - asked if the packet of porridge oats he had brought to the till was definitely the non-organic, he had to buy the "ordinary", not the organic. I just smiled/grimaced and said that, yes, those ones had been sprayed with pesticides. He still bought them.

 

[661-Pete]

Nothing libellous i hope - but I used to get a Riverford veg box.

Quite often it had French stuff in and I changed to a local one as soon as one became available.

My view - as I said - was less of an organic food obsession and more of a "sensible" food obsession. By this I mean eating local veg / game (especially wild rabbit or muntjac deer which farmers will sell for almost nothing as they consider them vermin) / cheap cuts of locally reared meat and less meat generally

As Dell and Crankarm have said - eat less meat / grow your own if you can

If you can't buy local. If the local onion harvest is not up to scratch then eat something else.

I've found eating only local veg and a bit of local meat has improved my cooking skills no end. So if the onion crop fails you can cook something else.

You have to make ends meet with what's been produced around you - and that's the way it should be (and it's cheaper)

I accept the mild reproof. Not out to try and justify everything we do (after all, I've already said, we're half-and-half)!

We did try to sound out one or two local 'boxes' but none of them would suit for one reason or another. So Riverford it had to be. They are not bad: admittedly their stuff has to go round the country by lorry. As does everything else. I'm old enough to remember the traditional French onion-johnnie, bike festooned with strings of onions, back in the 1950s, but alas! this is 2009.

And onions are the one thing we can't do without, in our cuisine. If carrots are unavailable - fine: we can do without carrots. If cabbage is unavailable - fine: we can do without cabbage. If potatoes are unavailable - fine: we can do without potatoes. But not onions: there is just nothing that will substitute: when you want an onion in a recipe it just has to be an onion.

We already have a meat-free diet so we're doing our bit on the eat-less-meat front, but as I said I'm not trying to make myself out to be an angel. We eat no meat from choice as much as principles. And we still eat fish.

At least our courgettes are, as I said, for the present, locally grown! A total distance from plant to kitchen of - let's say - ten yards.