Ouch! Baptism by fire..... now I need a MTB >:)

[ChrisEyles]

I went out mountain biking for the first time ever this morning with my wife and a friend from work. We went to the trail centre in Haldon forest and rented some of the hire bikes there (650b hardtails).

Had an absolutely awesome time bombing along the trails! Unfortunately my enthusiasm rapidly overtook my experience and after a couple of hours I thought I'd try and get some serious air off a nice downhill bump.... not quite sure what happened after that but ended up sliding through the flinty mud on my knees and face with the bike on top of me, to be met by horrified glances all around when I got to my feet - urk!

Knee is now pretty fooked (hopefully nothing actually serious just swollen so bad I can't really walk on it at the moment) and face is stinging like the blazes (I have a good action-hero cut/graze from forehead to cheekbone)....

But what's this? I seem to be opening multiple ebay and gumtree tabs and looking for a mountain bike! Might have to take it a little more cautiously next time but it was so much fun I *have* to give it another go.

I really like the look of the old GT bikes with the "triple triangle" frames, especially the older ones with more-or-less horizontal top tubes. Budget will be, well, budget for a MTB (I guess around £50 or so) but I will keep an eye out for second hand ones, something's bound to come up sooner or later.

Any tips for how not to catapult off the bike next time (or any good resources for these)? I more or less know what I'm doing on a road bike, but these seem to be rather different beasts!

 

[Deleted member 23692]

Just for you...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdaZjiun9AE

 

[ChrisEyles]

Haha! I think I've got the taking off bit nailed, it's just the landing that seemed to be a touch problematic!

 

[mustang1]

Ha good post! Happy MTB hunting!

I too am useless off road and don't ride the MTB as much as I want to. But whenever I do, its a whole bunch of fun.

 

[ChrisEyles]

Right, next question to assist me in my search:

Is it feasible to do blue/red trails in a spirited fashion on a fully rigid vintage MTB as a newbie, or would I just be setting myself up for more disastrous wipe-outs? There is a nice old GT Tequesta going (a bit of a drive away, but very well priced), but it's fully rigid... and my knee still hurts a lot...

 

[Hugh Manatee]

Hello Chris. I'm sort of into the retro mountain bike thing. My main ride is a 1988 Saracen Kili Flier and I also have a 1990 version used for touring and a very early Brontrager titanium. The GT bikes from that era are very highly regarded, indeed the Zaskar is an all time classic considered the first 'hooligan' attack/jump bike.

Back then the suspension was the tyres and I tend to spend a lot of time out of the saddle absorbing hits and rattles that moderns don't even notice. I have recently purchased a new bike for my daughter. Not an expensive bike by any means, a £450 Norco I think, but I have noticed a few things.

The position. Moderns seem to emulate the bike your local vicar used to ride around on. Despite being a 18.5 frame with 650B wheels, I felt like a bookend! Very sit up and beg. Old bikes tend to put you into a more stretched position. My 1990 bike came fitted with a 150mm zero rise stem! Arse up, head down was considered the racey way to ride (giggidy). That GT doesn't look too bad as it tended to be the high end machined aimed at weekend racers with the extreme positions.

The current fashion now is for bars so wide you really need to be a gibbon to ride the thing. I still don't know why this is. There is always some radical gnarly dude wrapped around a tree or lying on the trail in front of his bike still upright pinned between two trees whenever I ride Cannock chase. My race bike had 21" bars. That GT has bar ends, possibly part of the actual bars? These in my opinion aid climbing and comfort thanks to more varied hand positions.

Tyres (and indeed frame clearance for them) tended to be around 1.95" and of course were 26" size. These are harder to find now especially in the required gum wall configuration. The holy grail would be white Onza Porcupines, good examples of which sell for hundreds of pounds on ebay. I have just fitted gum wall Charge Splashbacks which I got for the crazy price of £11 per pair!! Personally, I hate the fashion of all black tyres as it makes the wheels look very heavy.

Gearing. What has happened to mountain bike ratios? Again, in my opinion, if God rode a bike, He would go for chain ring sizes of 24-36-46 and a cassette with a 12-28 spread. I am an old fat man and never get off and push if I can possibly help it. I have ridden over the years places such as Dartmoor, Halden, The Peaks, Devon bridle paths and Cannock chase both for pleasure and racing. I have also toured fully laden with the same ratios and not struggled. Visually, modern bikes look all wrong to me because the big chainring doesn't overlap the tyre. Yuk!

Brakes. The first go I had on my daughter's bike made me think, Wow! Even the cheap Tektro hydraulic disks are really very good. Some chaps on Retrobike say cantilevers as fitted to bike in the picture can be set up to be almost as good, but I'm not so sure! My hands and wrists sure hurt more than my legs do after a ride. I Have fiddled with and experimented with cantis for years and still haven't found the perfect set up. A lad on one of those weird fat things had a go on my Saracen and immediately fell off (very funny) because, "The brakes don't work." I thought they were working pretty well. One youngster congratulated me on riding a nasty rocky downhill stretch on my old bike. Apparently I was like, radical gnarly man! Truth was I had frantically tried to stop and walk it but couldn't manage to brake in time! I have one bike fitted with (in my mind) modern Shimano XT Vee brakes as the wide profile cantilevers fouled the panniers. It looks wrong but, my word they are very good. Consider also Magura HS-33 hydraulic rim brakes. I'm not sure if that GT has the Groove Tube running along the bottom of the top tube? This might complicate fitting other braking systems.

Suspension. At least 100mm seems to be the minimum these days. I say a rigid bike makes you a better rider more in tune with the process. You have to look ahead and plan your line. Try to smash your way down and rely on the bike to soak up all your mistakes won't work for long! I suppose it is horses for courses! Personally, I have no desire to ride the Black routes with huge jumps and drop offs. I do ride the Red Routes on Cannock, don't need to get off and embarrass a few youngsters each time I go up there especially on the climbs. The little gits do catch me on the downhills easily enough though! For the record, I have a Flexstem and an Alsop Softride stem to try and protect my ruined shoulders. The Bontager has an early Pace fork offering a huge 50mm travel!

If, like me, mountain biking is going to be an occasional thing, the GT would be fine. Modern bikes will stop a lot quicker and allow you to get away with stuff that the old bike would punish you for but simply develop a riding style in tune with what you have.

I started cycling seriously as a mountain biker waaay back in the late 80s. I bought a road bike simply to get fitter for racing the MTB. It has swung the other way for me now but occasionally I get the urge to get muddy and when this happens the old 89 Saracen is the bike I reach for.

Sorry for the long reply! Additional: That GT has the finest shifters type ever!

 

[ChrisEyles]

Thanks a lot @Hugh Manatee for the in-depth reply - very useful info indeed to have while I search around.

Yes, I think MTBing will be more of an occasional thing for me, so I'm not keen on splashing too much cash on one.

Totally agree on the sit-up-and-beg position and crazy wide bars (and super short stem) of a modern MTB. To me the hire bikes felt incredibly solid and indestructibly ride-over-anything hence a lot of fun bombing downhill over bumpy ground, but they didn't feel at all lively in their handling. A 150mm zero rise stem might be a bit too much of a good thing for me but like you say most of the lower end 90s bikes are a bit more of a happy medium.

I have cantilever brakes on my touring bike, and they are definitely a good deal stronger than any road bike caliper brake I've used... but I can still envision the odd enforced "gnarly" descent happening on them like you said! The vee brakes on my wife's bike are superb though (I'd say nearly as good as the disc brakes on the bikes we hired), so I'd consider upgrading to these.

If it were closer I'd jump at the pictured GT Tequesta, but it is around a 5hr round trip to pick it up, and if it doesn't fit..... plus at the moment the knee is making walking/driving impossible not to mention riding.

I think you've convinced me that a 90s rigid (or short-travel front suss) is the way to go though

 

[ChrisEyles]

Thanks @Jolly Julia You bet I'll watch out in future.... having to take time off work as not able to walk or drive, let alone cycle is not much fun! Can't even get into the garage to tinker with my bikes > Am definitely going to get back out there and get down that hill in one piece next time!

 

[ChrisEyles]

now this looks even better:

if it had a horizontal top tube it might actually be worth the insanely long drive (why are all the beautiful bikes so far away from Devon!). Must... resist... (at least until I can drive again, I don't think Mrs Chris would be at all amused otherwise!)

 

[ChrisEyles]

My friend at work just sent me this picture from our outing - sore but happy

Managed to walk (well, hobble) upstairs today which is a relief - was starting to think I should maybe take the knee to the docs, but seems to be going in the right direction now

 

[Pale Rider]

I agree about modern bars being too wide, but they can usually be chopped.

They are supposed to give better leverage on difficult down hill trails, but that's not relevant to most of us.

On the topic of steering, a short stem is worth having to give a more direct feel.

The yellow GT looks a nice bike, but with that stem I expect the steering will be woolly.

 

[Motozulu]

Must admit I've bought into the wide bars thing - I'm not really a downhiller, but I've gradually gone from 620mm bars up to my 760mm ones on both MTB's now. I like the way it opens up the chest on climbs and I find I just have more control in general of the bike on anything that's fast.

 

[ChrisEyles]

@Pale Rider, yes the hire bikes at the trail centre had exceptionally short stems - this contributed to the sit up and beg position I think. Normally I like to be a lot more stretched out on a bike, but then again I'm still struggling to get my head around the MTB posture scooting way way back on (or off!) the saddle. Once I find a suitable bike I guess I'll have to experiment with a few different set-ups.

Yes, I like the look of the yellow GT a lot too... unfortunately it's a bit out of budget, especially once postage is added on (and way too far to drive to pick up). Since I won't likely be hitting the trails too often I can afford to be patient, the right bike's bound to come up on ebay/gumtree eventually!

 

[Levo-Lon]

The thing with mtb is nearly All downhill riding or technicle stuff and any time your likely to need fast direction changes or going to get air You must be in the attack postion..
off the seat knees bent and low to the bike so you keep your balance.
you need to be able to push back over the rear or move forward and back when going through big holes etc..hence why modern bikes have low top tubes and wider bars..
The best advice id give you is Hire the bike for a while..
i think the old bike thing is a waste of time if you want to really get the MTB bug.

 

[blazed]

If you're going to do something do it properly. Even if it's just the occasional ride, what sort of budget is £50-£100? That's dinner for two people at a standard restaurant.