raleighnut
Legendary Member
- Location
- One of the 'Elite'
Disgusting.
P&O have Peed & Offed
- Thread starter mjr
- Start date
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Sterlo
Early Retirement Planning
- Location
- East Riding of Yorkshire
Some of our local MP's have mentioned about changing the name of one of the Hull/Rotterdam ferries from "Pride of Hull" so we aren't associated with this fiasco. It was on the cards when the Zeebrugge route was cancelled last year, both of the ferry's from that route are up for sale. Anyone looking for a weekend yacht, although I wouldn't want to give P&O the benefit.
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
This is true, I suspect though that @Donger was referring to the reduction in traffic, especially on the Land Bridge to Ireland, since the start of 2021.
a.twiddler
Veteran
I used to work for a company based in the North West that was big on statements such as "our workforce is our greatest resource" and for many years treated their frontline lowest paid staff an a manner that totally contradicted that. Being in the care sector they cynically used the staff's loyalty to the people they supported as leverage to be able to do this.
Not unexpectedly, as time went by staff turnover increased and shifts increasingly were covered by agency staff. The irony is, that although agency staff cost the company more, responsibility for their well being and employment rights were the agency's problem not the company's, so on balance it was probably a cost saving for the company, despite losing continuity of care and relationships which regular staff would have had with their service users. So although P and O have taken trampling on their employees' rights to an extreme, it is not a new thing.
It has more to do with ownership of a company by faceless people in Dubai, where human rights are probably seen as a modern Western affectation, confident that the social consequences and costs of their actions will be borne by someone else. P and O are just another brand in their portfolio, any connection to the history and traditions of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co is just something that their marketing people can hype as "heritage".
The same can be said of any multinational company whose base is not in the country where their actions affect local employment. If they think they can get away with something, they will do it.
Perhaps it's not such a good idea to look too closely at the way British and other employees were treated in the glory days of the British Empire. You can read about poor treatment of foreign people but British workers were treated pretty badly too, with long hours, dangerous conditions, few employment rights or job security, no holidays or sick pay. P and O like other employers were probably equally as bad.
However, nowadays we expect better. Even in these days of zero hours contracts and "self employment" which is not self employment, fire and rehire with less favourable pay and conditions, it's still pretty shocking to hear of 800 -odd workers being made redundant with no notice and to see their replacements waiting on the quayside to take their jobs. It has been said that if the jobs still exist then it can't be redundancy but sacking .
No doubt further details will be known in due course. We will have to wait and see.
Not unexpectedly, as time went by staff turnover increased and shifts increasingly were covered by agency staff. The irony is, that although agency staff cost the company more, responsibility for their well being and employment rights were the agency's problem not the company's, so on balance it was probably a cost saving for the company, despite losing continuity of care and relationships which regular staff would have had with their service users. So although P and O have taken trampling on their employees' rights to an extreme, it is not a new thing.
It has more to do with ownership of a company by faceless people in Dubai, where human rights are probably seen as a modern Western affectation, confident that the social consequences and costs of their actions will be borne by someone else. P and O are just another brand in their portfolio, any connection to the history and traditions of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co is just something that their marketing people can hype as "heritage".
The same can be said of any multinational company whose base is not in the country where their actions affect local employment. If they think they can get away with something, they will do it.
Perhaps it's not such a good idea to look too closely at the way British and other employees were treated in the glory days of the British Empire. You can read about poor treatment of foreign people but British workers were treated pretty badly too, with long hours, dangerous conditions, few employment rights or job security, no holidays or sick pay. P and O like other employers were probably equally as bad.
However, nowadays we expect better. Even in these days of zero hours contracts and "self employment" which is not self employment, fire and rehire with less favourable pay and conditions, it's still pretty shocking to hear of 800 -odd workers being made redundant with no notice and to see their replacements waiting on the quayside to take their jobs. It has been said that if the jobs still exist then it can't be redundancy but sacking .
No doubt further details will be known in due course. We will have to wait and see.
Although this thread has turned full NACA, as much as I blame P&O and their parent company, I blame the government for allowing this and other examples like British Gas to happen, there is no point in MPs in pretending to cry over this when it is their own actions that made it very possible.
oldwheels
Legendary Member
- Location
- Isle of Mull
There is nothing particularly new about this as such things have been happening for years.There are numerous cases of a company take over and the production facility shut down and transferred to the takeover company base.
I can think of two very old cases of this. In the 1950s there was a tile producing factory in Old Kilpatrick which was causing severe damage to the sales of Marley tiles. Marley made an offer the O.K. owner could not resist and after takeover shut the place down and all production moved to their main base. He used the cash to restart Littlemill Distillery and took many of the staff with him.
The SCWS was a successful business but was taken over by the CWS in the 1960s. All the Scottish factories were shut down and production moved south.
Not that I condone the actions of P&O but the public have very short memories and outrage will be soon forgotten. After all that is how some politicians are currently behaving in the knowledge that their behaviour will soon be old news.
I can think of two very old cases of this. In the 1950s there was a tile producing factory in Old Kilpatrick which was causing severe damage to the sales of Marley tiles. Marley made an offer the O.K. owner could not resist and after takeover shut the place down and all production moved to their main base. He used the cash to restart Littlemill Distillery and took many of the staff with him.
The SCWS was a successful business but was taken over by the CWS in the 1960s. All the Scottish factories were shut down and production moved south.
Not that I condone the actions of P&O but the public have very short memories and outrage will be soon forgotten. After all that is how some politicians are currently behaving in the knowledge that their behaviour will soon be old news.
OP
OP
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Back to less political more practical, newspapers are reporting no P&O ferries for 10 days and DFDS accepting P&O vehicle bookings at Dover, which I expect includes bikes. No idea what the foot passengers are doing, as only P&O still took them. Not great for sustainable tourism!
Sterlo
Early Retirement Planning
- Location
- East Riding of Yorkshire
Nice to see some people have principals:
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/po-agency-worker-walks-after-6824518
https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/po-agency-worker-walks-after-6824518
wiggydiggy
Legendary Member
He was on the BBC as well, short video interview with him: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-60792999
The logistics of this confuse me though, he is from Hull (where they wanted Agency staff) but was sent to Glasgow!
I agree. The goverment had the opportunity to legislate against this but they chose not to: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58997916?msclkid=763b9960a6cf11ec9f00b337e54854ce
Time Waster
Veteran
Can I be pedantic about the phrase?
By their very nature multinational companies cannot possibly be based in the countries they operate in. That's if you call the headquarters their base. Only one HQ but many countries of operation, surely?
Of course I get the point, big companies don't care about employees away from their hq. Don't agree though, too general and stereotypical of big business. For a start there's companies that do care about those in other countries and some who don't care about those working at their hq neither. It's a full spectrum IMHO.
I once worked for a UK company owned by a very wealthy Thai family. A family of several billionaires. One came over to our little part of their empire. He walked in and went straight to the MD's office and didn't even acknowledge anyone's presence. 15 minutes later he was out and onto another company down the road that he owned. However the company paid well and was very positive towards employees. I was only a work placement but they paid me well despite not having to and threw me a leaving do with gift despite only working there 2 months. I wasn't even a good match for them but they still gave me a chance with the placement.
By their very nature multinational companies cannot possibly be based in the countries they operate in. That's if you call the headquarters their base. Only one HQ but many countries of operation, surely?
Of course I get the point, big companies don't care about employees away from their hq. Don't agree though, too general and stereotypical of big business. For a start there's companies that do care about those in other countries and some who don't care about those working at their hq neither. It's a full spectrum IMHO.
I once worked for a UK company owned by a very wealthy Thai family. A family of several billionaires. One came over to our little part of their empire. He walked in and went straight to the MD's office and didn't even acknowledge anyone's presence. 15 minutes later he was out and onto another company down the road that he owned. However the company paid well and was very positive towards employees. I was only a work placement but they paid me well despite not having to and threw me a leaving do with gift despite only working there 2 months. I wasn't even a good match for them but they still gave me a chance with the placement.
have had an opportunity to make their points ... but we know this is really a NCAP matter, so we'll Lock it now but leave it in place for now. 
presta
Legendary Member
The writing has been on the wall for half a century or more, we're paying the price for being one of the first countries in the world to grow rich from the industrial revolution. Back in the 19th century, travel and transport were expensive, so we were able to enjoy our wealth in glorious isolation, but that's not the case any more, and hasn't been for decades. Now it's very easy to import labour and export jobs from/to poorer countries where labour is cheap, so that's what happens.
That should have been our cue to improve competitiveness, but that didn't happen. Instead, we kept looking for markets where we thought that Johnny Forriner couldn't do what we can, and retreated into them as a means of trying to avoid competition, then one by one we found that foreigners can do anything we can, often better and cheaper. Now we're rapidly approaching the end of the road with nowhere left to retreat to.
It will continue to happen until we reach an equilibrium where the wealth difference that's driving it ceases to exist, but the sad fact for us is that the environment can't bear our levels of wealth for the rest of the planet, so the only sustainable future is one where the rich first-world countries get poorer.
That should have been our cue to improve competitiveness, but that didn't happen. Instead, we kept looking for markets where we thought that Johnny Forriner couldn't do what we can, and retreated into them as a means of trying to avoid competition, then one by one we found that foreigners can do anything we can, often better and cheaper. Now we're rapidly approaching the end of the road with nowhere left to retreat to.
It will continue to happen until we reach an equilibrium where the wealth difference that's driving it ceases to exist, but the sad fact for us is that the environment can't bear our levels of wealth for the rest of the planet, so the only sustainable future is one where the rich first-world countries get poorer.
OP
OP
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Please can we stick to the travel/touring implications here? The political stuff can be posted on https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/p-o.210/
Rusty Nails
We remember
- Location
- Living in the slow lane
Is the ship the employer or the P&O company? Who are the employment contracts signed by and who pays them, the ship or the company?
I don't know enough about employment law to be definitive, but I would have thought where the particular ships are registered is not the important factor.
I hope this post is not counted as political because it is just meant as a straightforward question about the definition of the employer.
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Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
I've no idea what sort of contracts will be in place, but I think the port of registry IS an important factor. The port of registry effectively makes the ship a part of the country of registration's territory. Same as an aircraft sitting in a foreign airport.
One of my trips to sea was a tanker, registered in the UK and owned by P&O. We spent the whole 6 months carrying refined petrol and diesel up and down the west coast of Mexico, on contract to PEMEX (Mexican petroleum company).
So despite working for a Mexican company, in Mexican waters, we were paid in the UK and because the ship was registered in UK, we were subject to UK rules and regulations. Our officers were British, the crew Indian (cost cutting even 40+ years ago).
I would imagine the officers and crews on P&O ferries will be similar. They work for a Dubai based company (the name P&O still being used is for marketing and image only, nothing to do with the previous London based company). The ships are registered in Cyprus or Bahamas, so no real connection with the UK other than some of the ports they sail to and from.
A lot is being made about the number of British jobs being lost, but any time I have been on a P&O ferry in the last 20 years, it has been crewed by a league of nations. It will be a very complicated set up when it comes to contracts.
