Panniers and racks, room for improvement??

[cycle-design]

Hello all.
First of all I would just like to say thank you for providing a wealth of advice and information on this site, its a great reference for any cyclist.
My name is Rob Ellis and I am working on a final year design degree project relating to carrying luggage on bikes during long distance tours, with particular focus on cycle camping. It would be great to hear your experiences of the following points: if you do not want to clog up the forum please feel free to email me at rob-ellis@hotmail.co.uk
Any advice you can offer will be very much appreciated:
Firstly what brand and type of panniers and racks (steel or alloy) are you using. Why did you choose these particular products?? Are you happy with them??
Also when camping over night (if you have done this), what do you do with the pannier bags, are they removed and taken into the tent?? Are the bags quick and easy to remove/replace or can they be troublesome?
Throughout your cycling experiences have you ever had any pannier racks or pannier bags fail on a ride?? I've heard about alloy pannier racks flexing and shearing from their fixings.
Finally if you have taken your bike on planes to tour abroad, how did you carry your luggage i.e. in the panniers or in an additional suitcase and the panniers stowed with the bike in the luggage hold??
Thanks again for your input
Kind regards
Rob Ellis

 

[mickle]

We've had two industrial design students visit in the last few weeks who used the great resource of knowledge and experience to be found on this forum and then zarked off never to be seen again. It's a bit rude and eventually folk will stop helping.

Bags come in sizes, described as their litre capacity, and sometimes as just fronts or rears. They usually have carry loops on the top inside edge so its possible to carry four panniers with two hands.

Racks attach using good old nuts and bolts to eyelets if its a steel frame or threaded holes if aluminum.

The best racks are hand made from thin wall tubular steel alloy (rare and expensive) or welded aluminum rod. The much copied aluminum Blackburn Expedition (EX1) is the benchmark rear rack.

Modern panniers (from the French for bread) use injection moulded clips (with built in latches to stop them bouncing off), often with some fore/aft adjustment capability.

From the frame eyelets to the clips the whole system is fairly standardised and aside from some small details and developments in materials and manufacture hasn't changed in decades.

People take their bags inside their tents because they contain their all their kit.
They are quick and easy to remove/replace.
Bags and racks do fail, like anything, but failures are very rare. Buy cheap, buy twice.

One area which has been neglected (since the demise of Airstream panniers twenty years ago) is aerodynamics. Overcoming aerodynamic drag consumes around 80% of a cyclist's energy at cruising speed. Sticking four bags on a bike does nothing to help. Airstream used to claim that the shape of their bags actually made you go faster, (particularly the fronts as they cleaned up the air around the feet and lower legs) and I reckon they were right, if you can reduce your Cd you go faster. Airstream bags used perforated styrene sheets to retain their bags shape.

Google; Rixen Clickfix, Ortleib, Blackburn Lowrider, Carradice.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Danny]

The only thing that I would add to Mickle's comprehensive reply is that I have had a couple of pannier racks fail. Generally one of the welds has broken where the different sections of rod join together at the bottom of the rack just above the point where you fix it onto your dropout.

However the design of the racks mean that they are generally still usable if just one of the welds breaks.

 

[BigonaBianchi]

Firstly what brand and type of panniers and racks (steel or alloy) are you using.
Carradice overlander panniers on blackburn alloy racks

Why did you choose these particular products??
They do the job, look good on my bike and were cheaper than Ortliebs

Are you happy with them?? YES

Also when camping over night (if you have done this), what do you do with the pannier bags, are they removed and taken into the tent?? YES always

Are the bags quick and easy to remove/replace Yes or can they be troublesome? No
Throughout your cycling experiences have you ever had any pannier racks or pannier bags fail on a ride?? Only once in Germany when my front low rider rack broke on cobblestone roads


I've heard about alloy pannier racks flexing and shearing from their fixings.
Finally if you have taken your bike on planes to tour abroad, how did you carry your luggage i.e. in the panniers or in an additional suitcase and the panniers stowed with the bike in the luggage hold??

I took th ebags and wrapped them up in my tent groundsheet so i only had one bag for excess luggage purposes on Ryan air, on Easy jet I just stuff all my gear inside the bike box

Thanks again for your input
Kind regards
Rob Ellis

 

[Aperitif]

That is good stuff mickle - thanks.

 

[xilios]

Firstly what brand and type of panniers and racks (steel or alloy) are you using. Ortlieb bags and Tubus racks. Why did you choose these particular products?? They were highly recomended by many world travelers. Are you happy with them?? Very much, seems they were right.
Also when camping over night (if you have done this), what do you do with the pannier bags, are they removed and taken into the tent?? Always. Are the bags quick and easy to remove/replace or can they be troublesome? They are very easy, too easy as a mater of fact thats why they come in the tent with us.
Throughout your cycling experiences have you ever had any pannier racks or pannier bags fail on a ride?? Never. I've heard about alloy pannier racks flexing and shearing from their fixings.
Finally if you have taken your bike on planes to tour abroad, how did you carry your luggage i.e. in the panniers or in an additional suitcase and the panniers stowed with the bike in the luggage hold?? They go in the luggage hold with the bkes.

 

[vernon]

Any advice you can offer will be very much appreciated:
Firstly what brand and type of panniers and racks (steel or alloy) are you using.

Bor Yueh alloy rack. Didn't choose it. I came with the bike - A Dawes Galaxy
Altura Orkney rear panniers Halfords fron panniers. Rear because of reputation. Front because of price and immediate availability.

Why did you choose these particular products?? See above
Are you happy with them?? Yes
Also when camping over night (if you have done this), what do you do with the pannier bags, are they removed and taken into the tent?? Yes
Are the bags quick and easy to remove/replace or can they be troublesome?Easy to remove as are most panniers to be honest.
Throughout your cycling experiences have you ever had any pannier racks or pannier bags fail on a ride??
Never in 4000 miles of touring.
I've heard about alloy pannier racks flexing and shearing from their fixings.
Finally if you have taken your bike on planes to tour abroad, how did you carry your luggage i.e. in the panniers or in an additional suitcase and the panniers stowed with the bike in the luggage hold??
Thanks again for your input
Kind regards
Rob Ellis

 

[jay clock]

Firstly what brand and type of panniers and racks (steel or alloy) are you using. Why did you choose these particular products?? Are you happy with them??

I have Tubus steel racks - they came on the bike and have a good reputation. What I particularly like is that the rear racks has a little side rail about 3cm lower than the top level, onto which the panniers clip. This lowers the centre of gravity and means the top of the rack is completely clear to add other stuff on, and be able to use straps/bungees.


Also when camping over night (if you have done this), what do you do with the pannier bags, are they removed and taken into the tent?? Are the bags quick and easy to remove/replace or can they be troublesome?

I have Ortlieb front and back rollers. One of the best features is that they clip on very easily (picking them up by the handles opens the clips and as soon as the panniers are clipped onto the rack, the clips fasten again). When I camped I took them inside the tent (it was a bigger tent than needed, now replaced with a smaller one, but I would still take them inside)


Throughout your cycling experiences have you ever had any pannier racks or pannier bags fail on a ride?? I've heard about alloy pannier racks flexing and shearing from their fixings.

No rack breakages. The lower clip on the Ortliebs can easily come undone


Finally if you have taken your bike on planes to tour abroad, how did you carry your luggage i.e. in the panniers or in an additional suitcase and the panniers stowed with the bike in the luggage hold??

Since I tour I put my bike in a 500g plastic bag from here http://www.bikeadventures.co.uk/shop.html - this folds up into a pannier while touring. Since low cost airlines now charge per bag, I use a cheap nylon fold up holdall from a £shop to put three panniers in, and then take one as carry-on baggage.

 

[jay clock]

We've had two industrial design students visit in the last few weeks who used the great resource of knowledge and experience to be found on this forum and then zarked off never to be seen again. It's a bit rude and eventually folk will stop helping.

It would be nice if you were a keen enough cyclist to keep coming back, but if you are a student with an interest in cyclling, and don't spend all your time on the forum that is fine too.....

 

[mickle]

It would be nice if you were a keen enough cyclist to keep coming back, but if you are a student with an interest in cyclling, and don't spend all your time on the forum that is fine too.....

Yes. I meant that it would be nice to see the finished project.

 

[mickle]

Tumbleweed..................

 

[just jim]

Come on Rob - have you moved on to trailers already?

 

[Randochap]

Also when camping over night (if you have done this), what do you do with the pannier bags, are they removed and taken into the tent??

YES always

No bears around then!