Pavement cyclists.

[Clandy]

[QUOTE 1101466"]
Not true at all. In fact the government issued guidance alongside the introduction of fines for pavement riding which stated that they should be issued only when a cyclist is riding in a manner that would endanger others. And Paul Boateng stated in a letter that "The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required."

[/quote]

I refer you to post #141.

 

[OldFashionedCyclist]

Oh dear. How pathetic of misterpaul to ask for extra evidence from Brokenbetty’s witnesses so as to claim that as yet no-one has "really" expressed concern about this problem. In truth, they said ample, and clearly. I share brokenbetty’s frustration. I, too, have neither the time nor the inclination to correct every bit of nonsense. Some cyclists simply don’t care what pedestrians feel. But not, I am glad to say, all of them.

I suppose the clue was the 18,000 posts in four years.

A few weeks ago I needed to travel a couple of miles on this road LINK. The road was busy, very fast and lots of HGVs. I used the path, did not see a single pedestrian. Was I really a selfish ignorant moron ?

Very different to rush hour London. I would say cycle by all means, but get off and walk, or pull over, if someone comes the other way. I think the basic rule is that if you upset them, it’s your fault, so be nice.

 

[Clandy]

A few weeks ago I needed to travel a couple of miles on this road LINK. The road was busy, very fast and lots of HGVs. I used the path, did not see a single pedestrian. Was I really a selfish ignorant moron ?

No, but you have allowed yourself to be frightened off the road by the car. Funny thing about more cyclists using the road, traffic gets calmer and roads get safer.

 

[400bhp]

No, but you have allowed yourself to be frightened off the road by the car. Funny thing about more cyclists using the road, traffic gets calmer and roads get safer.

You'll have to wait for his reply to see if he was frightened. It might be that he thought it was a risk not worth taking.

 

[biglad]

I've been cycling for under a week.

I bought my first bike (since I was a young lad anyway) on Thursday and since then have been out every day on it building my confidence up, getting my balance and so forth. I have ridden to and from work on Friday, Satuday and today. The route takes me through my council estate, onto a road, then to work.

I ride on average at about 7-8mph according to the little computer I have on the bike. I spent just over a week reading threads on this very forum prior to making my purchase, trying to gain an understanding of what the cycling community it like generally, as well as ask for some advice and tips, and generally involve myself. Through reading the commuting forum, I quickly realised that road cycling seems absolutely terrifying. I watched videos of youtubes people posted, read horror stories and so forth. It almost put me off cycling if I'm being honest... almost.

When I ride, I mostly ride on the pavement. apart from one leg of my journey where I do go out onto the road for about 5-10 minutes, then, when I turn at a junction of a much busier road, I go back on the path. Why? Because I have never cycled before, and I don't have the awareness of the road that comes from being a motorist. When I am riding, I am trying to take in a lot of things that aren't coming naturally to me yet and frankly, I'm scared to be on a busy road. My logic being that I am gradually building up to doing my whole journey on the road, but until I build up my awareness, and my confidence, I'm going to keep going the way I am, and certainly do not think I am in some sort of position whereby I owe someone an apology for it. I want to cycle. I'm not good at it. I'm slow. I don't know the road. I am learning. I am building up confidence. I don't want to endanger my life by being an ignorant road user.

When I approach someone from behind on my bike, I let them know that I'm approaching well in advance, and completely expect to go around them. I don't want to inconvenience a single soul. I always give a friendly "thanks mate" when I pass, and always give a visual indication of my intentions to go around pedestrians walking towards me. Again, offering thanks or apologies as I pass. From some of the post's, especially earlier on. My lack of confidence, and desire to build up my proficiency gradually makes me some sort of street thug, or peanut, and requires me to be hit with umbrellas.

Early posts also indicate that since I am not frequently on the road, I should not be cycling at all. Is this the ultimatum? I go out onto the road as an unsafe cyclist or I don't go out at all? I do not accept this. Nor do I accept that I am acting irresponsibly. I feel a little saddened by the judgemental attitudes of some of the users posting on this thread. I do not wish to be patronised by people who do not know my skillset, confidence levels, cycling ability, road knowledge/awareness or anything else by saying "just get on the road!" or "you'll only learn by getting stuck in and doing it."

I don't hold this opinion. I think a frightened, unaware cyclist on the road will put lives at risk much, much more so than a humble lad trying to better himself by building himself up gradually. And if that means I have to offer my thanks to pedestrians a little more, then do you forum users trully believe that its not a small sacrifice with a big picture in mind?

I think a lot of people will think I'm taking this personally, I'm not I assure you. I'm just trying to offer some thoughts on the matter. If after reading this you truly believe I have no right to be cycling at all, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts as to why. If not, I'll happily plod along, getting better day by day.

 

[Clandy]

I've been cycling for under a week.

I bought my first bike (since I was a young lad anyway) on Thursday and since then have been out every day on it building my confidence up, getting my balance and so forth. I have ridden to and from work on Friday, Satuday and today. The route takes me through my council estate, onto a road, then to work.

I ride on average at about 7-8mph according to the little computer I have on the bike. I spent just over a week reading threads on this very forum prior to making my purchase, trying to gain an understanding of what the cycling community it like generally, as well as ask for some advice and tips, and generally involve myself. Through reading the commuting forum, I quickly realised that road cycling seems absolutely terrifying. I watched videos of youtubes people posted, read horror stories and so forth. It almost put me off cycling if I'm being honest... almost.

When I ride, I mostly ride on the pavement. apart from one leg of my journey where I do go out onto the road for about 5-10 minutes, then, when I turn at a junction of a much busier road, I go back on the path. Why? Because I have never cycled before, and I don't have the awareness of the road that comes from being a motorist. When I am riding, I am trying to take in a lot of things that aren't coming naturally to me yet and frankly, I'm scared to be on a busy road. My logic being that I am gradually building up to doing my whole journey on the road, but until I build up my awareness, and my confidence, I'm going to keep going the way I am, and certainly do not think I am in some sort of position whereby I owe someone an apology for it. I want to cycle. I'm not good at it. I'm slow. I don't know the road. I am learning. I am building up confidence. I don't want to endanger my life by being an ignorant road user.

When I approach someone from behind on my bike, I let them know that I'm approaching well in advance, and completely expect to go around them. I don't want to inconvenience a single soul. I always give a friendly "thanks mate" when I pass, and always give a visual indication of my intentions to go around pedestrians walking towards me. Again, offering thanks or apologies as I pass. From some of the post's, especially earlier on. My lack of confidence, and desire to build up my proficiency gradually makes me some sort of street thug, or peanut, and requires me to be hit with umbrellas.

Early posts also indicate that since I am not frequently on the road, I should not be cycling at all. Is this the ultimatum? I go out onto the road as an unsafe cyclist or I don't go out at all? I do not accept this. Nor do I accept that I am acting irresponsibly. I feel a little saddened by the judgemental attitudes of some of the users posting on this thread. I do not wish to be patronised by people who do not know my skillset, confidence levels, cycling ability, road knowledge/awareness or anything else by saying "just get on the road!" or "you'll only learn by getting stuck in and doing it."

I don't hold this opinion. I think a frightened, unaware cyclist on the road will put lives at risk much, much more so than a humble lad trying to better himself by building himself up gradually. And if that means I have to offer my thanks to pedestrians a little more, then do you forum users trully believe that its not a small sacrifice with a big picture in mind?

I think a lot of people will think I'm taking this personally, I'm not I assure you. I'm just trying to offer some thoughts on the matter. If after reading this you truly believe I have no right to be cycling at all, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts as to why. If not, I'll happily plod along, getting better day by day.

Find an adult Bikeability course in your area. It will help. Road experience will only come from riding on the road.

 

[biglad]

Thanks man. I am in the process of looking into some sort of proficiency course. I'm also building my time spent on the road up gradually each time I go out. There are things I need to overcome first though. Sometimes I get a bit wobbly when I look behind me for example. For reasons such as this, my original points still stand. I appreciate the tip though.

 

[OldFashionedCyclist]

[QUOTE 1101477"]
Yes, pathetic to examine the issue in more detail.
[/quote]
Your whole case depends on not examining anything. You pretend that anyone not on the forum who has said they have a problem doesn’t’ “really” have a problem unless what they have said has been researched and published in a dissertation. Those on the forum don’t “really” have a problem because… well, because you say so. Plus any experiences we talk about didn’t “really” happen. So obviously there isn’t really a problem!

As for Japan. Ha! Look at this ridiculous behaviour. They’re even sillier than you are!
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


[QUOTE 1101477"]
You really haven't read the thread have you? The problem isn't cyclists not being bothered about what peds feel, but others deciding for them what they feel when they really have no idea.”
[/quote]
No. That came from Brokenbetty, who knew perfectly well what other pedestrians thought, because she had asked them. Unlike you. You just decided to ignore what she told you because it didn’t suit you.

You gave yourself away when you said, “And if anyone with any experience of city living claims that you can get anywhere on a bike using quiet routes plus a minute or two of walking, then I really don't see the point in addressing such a strange and clearly questionable claim.”
Rubbish. There are always rat-runs. But you don’t bother to look them up because it’s easier for you to ride along the pavement.

[QUOTE 1101477"]
Great! So you now acknowledge that some pavement cycling is ok. It's a start....
[/quote]
Not a pavement. No pedestrians. Completely different.

On reflection, buggy pilots like you should ride on the pavement, on a machine limited to 3 mph, with a crash helmet from Toys R Us, and an adult walking alongside.

 

[OldFashionedCyclist]

I've been cycling for under a week. I bought my first bike (since I was a young lad anyway) on Thursday and since then have been out every day on it building my confidence up, getting my balance and so forth. I have ridden to and from work on Friday, Satuday and today. The route takes me through my council estate, onto a road, then to work.

Good luck with your course. They'll tell you everything you need to know. Cycling on the road isn't half as frightening as some people round here would have you believe. It's just a matter of know-how (which they'll teach you), and then confidence and practice. You'll get the hang of it!

 

[Clandy]

[QUOTE 1101485"]Thanks, I couldn't have found a better clip myself. It shows cyclists riding responsibly on a pavement, politely giving way to pedestrians, and causing none to deviate or even flinch. If you wanted to show why pavement cycling is wrong I'm afraid you've shot yourself in the foot.
[/quote]

Cycling on the pavement is legal in Japan. It is illegal in the UK. There is a fundamental difference there. Try to justify it any way you want, if you are a pavement cyclist, you are breaking the law. See Rule #64 of the Highway Code, it is unequivocal.
You are also helping to bring cycling as a whole down in the eyes of the non-cycling population.

 

[Clandy]

[QUOTE 1101487"]
Thanks, we know all that. We also know that the authorities over here are ok with responsible pavement cyclists, despite the law.
[/quote]



You're speaking for 'all' now are you? Where I live you will be told to get off the pavement. In town you will be stopped and handed an on the spot fine. If you are riding on the pavement you are breaking the law. Stop being a baby, and get in the road.


Highway Code.

Rule #64
You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.

 

[OldFashionedCyclist]

[QUOTE 1101489"]
Lovely bracing ride into work this morning along one of the busiest roads in Birmingham. Didn't need to use the pavement.
[/quote]
Well, of course you didn't. Finally, you seem to be getting the point!

If the youtube clip from Japan is representative of rush-hour pavements in Japan, there must be accidents all the time. If you can't see that, you must have even less understanding of human behaviour than I thought. But then again, the 18,000 posts was a pretty good clue to what's really going on with you. No wonder you think there are so few "irresponsible" cyclists on the pavements. They'd have to be doing thirty through a crowd of toddlers before you noticed anything amiss.

The law is the law. Plenty of police forces do enforce it, even if some are too stretched and have to prioritise other things. Paul Boeteng is not in the Government. Do you not remember the General Election? It was quite well publicised. In any case, even his fatuous comments did not relate to competent, but selfish, adults who ride on the pavement for preference, which is what this problem is mainly about.

 

[Clandy]

[QUOTE 1101489"]
You can see the bit about the police and government allowing responsible pavement cycling.
[/quote]

Please, be my guest and post reference.

 

[Origamist]

If the youtube clip from Japan is representative of rush-hour pavements in Japan, there must be accidents all the time. If you can't see that, you must have even less understanding of human behaviour than I thought. But then again, the 18,000 posts was a pretty good clue to what's really going on with you. No wonder you think there are so few "irresponsible" cyclists on the pavements. They'd have to be doing thirty through a crowd of toddlers before you noticed anything amiss.

In Japan, there is presumed liability if a cyclist collides with a pedestrian on the pavement. The courts, I understand, come down hard on cyclists who injure pedestrians and award considerable compensation to the victims.

Many cyclists who ride on the pavement have an understandable but skewed take on dangers they face on the roads and, analogously, whilst many pedestrians (particularly more vulnerable ones: the elderly, infirm or children) justifiably feel annoyed or are fearful of inconsiderate, Mr Toad-like cyclists who hurtle along pavements, the threat of harm posed to pedestrians is overstated and rarely set in a wider road danger reduction context. As ever, perceived risk trumps actual risk.

 

[Jezston]

OldFashionedCyclist = crankarm, or hackers?