Pavement parking and children cycling

[simon.r]

This issue is one of my bugbears. I challenged my neighbour (in a friendly manner!), who used to leave about 12" of clear footpath and she was genuinely surprised that I considered it an issue, as 'The cars need to get past don't they?' Her mindset was so focussed on cars that she just hadn't considered pedestrians, wheelchairs etc. This on a quiet surburban road where, in the worst case, a car parked fully on the road would mean a few seconds delay for a car if there happened to be another one coming in the opposite direction.

I believe the requisite space is 36", the police used to come round our village and ticket people when they'd received enough complaints and this is the figure they quoted on a poster in the local shop.

This doesn't relate directly to cars parking on the footpath, but for works that need barriers erecting on the footpath the recommendation is that 1.5m is left:

"Footways should be of a suitable width for the volume of pedestrian traffic. Temporary pedestrian routes should be at least 1.5 m wide wherever possible, and should be a minimum of 1.2 m wide with an absolute minimum of 1.0 m in exceptional circumstances."

Taken from http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publicatio...l/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-08-part-02.pdf

 

[sidevalve]

......or broken wing mirror, dented wing, bashed in door panel.........pavements are for peds, not parking. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who parks on the footpath either a) is incapable of judging distances and has real problems parking next to the footpath, or b) is just plain lazy.

Agree 100% [however that includes adult cyclists who have no right to be there either]. However be carefull, willfull criminal damage is still just that and if you are seen damaging someone's car you will have no defence. You may say "Oh well it shouldn't have been there in the first place" BUT the reply will only be "No it should not, it should have been reported to the police / council [the fact that they seem to do nothing will not be taken into account], and you fine will be £----- , next case". Oh yes, and you will have a criminal record. If the parking is on a school route and regular get the school to complain they often carry more weight than individuals.
Lastly I do find it interesting the number of people on this forum who swear thay never use cycle paths,"too dangerous, in silly places, can't use the mixed ones peds all over the place" etc etc. Then see the number who almost burst into tears and have a rant when someone parks on one of the "never used" cycle lanes.

 

[Andrew_Culture]

I live on a road of terraced houses built many years before cars were commercially available, if one side of the road doesn't part up on the pavement then emergency vehicles won't be able to get down the road. One pavement (across the road from us) is left totally clear due to an awesomely high kerb, and yet people still use the pavement on our side of the road and criminally damage vehicles to teach their owners a lesson.

Persistent criminal damage is only a small part of why I don't have a car, but is a very large part of the reason that my wife's car is a very old one, there's simply no point in owning a car you don't mind getting destroyed on our road.

What can be done? Well nothing I guess, barring demolishing all the houses on one side of the road. One plus of the road being so tight is that it tends to slow down all the motorists who use it as a short cut. There are quite a few children who play in the streets and between the cars, which makes us incredibly nervous. This week there has been a skip on the road which has brilliantly slowed down all the traffic!

 

[summerdays]

This issue is one of my bugbears. I challenged my neighbour (in a friendly manner!), who used to leave about 12" of clear footpath and she was genuinely surprised that I considered it an issue, as 'The cars need to get past don't they?' Her mindset was so focussed on cars that she just hadn't considered pedestrians, wheelchairs etc. This on a quiet surburban road where, in the worst case, a car parked fully on the road would mean a few seconds delay for a car if there happened to be another one coming in the opposite direction.



This doesn't relate directly to cars parking on the footpath, but for works that need barriers erecting on the footpath the recommendation is that 1.5m is left:

"Footways should be of a suitable width for the volume of pedestrian traffic. Temporary pedestrian routes should be at least 1.5 m wide wherever possible, and should be a minimum of 1.2 m wide with an absolute minimum of 1.0 m in exceptional circumstances."

The police aren't bothered with parking on the pavement if there is that large a gap - they only seem to get involved when it is very narrow - and you can understand why when you see the amount of pavement parking.

 

[summerdays]

Lastly I do find it interesting the number of people on this forum who swear thay never use cycle paths,"too dangerous, in silly places, can't use the mixed ones peds all over the place" etc etc. Then see the number who almost burst into tears and have a rant when someone parks on one of the "never used" cycle lanes.

That's ok then as I do use them when suitable

 

[Andrew_Culture]

[QUOTE 2026207, member: 45"]Double yellow lines.[/quote]

They're coming!

We live near the ITFC ground, the station and the town centre and yet the residents here keep turning down the chance to have residents parking permits.

 

[Hip Priest]

I parked on a kerb a few years ago, and when I returned to my car there was a note politely requesting me not to do so in future, and explaining the reasons why. It was a lesson learned, and I'm glad the note-writer was mature enough not to spitefully damage my car.

 

[Pauluk]

If a child cyclist goes into an illegally parked car, are the parents technically liable for any damage to the car?

I believe under English law parents are not liable (as they are in the USA) for any damage their children cause and children can't be held criminally liable (under a certain age, may be 10 years) nor do they have to account for civil damages. So its up to the conscience of the parent.

Personally I feel parent should be held to account in certain cases but there you go.

 

[Hebe]

This issue is one of my bugbears. I challenged my neighbour (in a friendly manner!), who used to leave about 12" of clear footpath and she was genuinely surprised that I considered it an issue, as 'The cars need to get past don't they?' Her mindset was so focussed on cars that she just hadn't considered pedestrians, wheelchairs etc. This on a quiet surburban road where, in the worst case, a car parked fully on the road would mean a few seconds delay for a car if there happened to be another one coming in the opposite direction. <...polite snip...

I think this is a lot of the problem - people think it's preferable to get their cars out of the way of the traffic but they don't think (or care, in some cases) how their actions affect those who rely on an unobstructed pavement to get around safely.

There was someone else parked there today, but B was ready for it and managed the manoevre fine. I think there's probably closer to 2feet of pavement left between lamp-post and kerb, but it's still not much compared to the 8 or 9 feet on the other side of the lamp-post. My intention would never be wilful damage, much as I might be tempted that's not the example I want to set my daughter, but I was interested in how much clout a peeved car-owner might have, legally, if a small child did encounter a car blocking their way and couldn't brake/steer around in time. The photo is from Googlemaps, if you imagine a car parked a few yards behind the one shown, you can see the problem we had. The bent lamp-post would seem to tell a story too. The previous house-owners use to park right up by the fence and close to their front door, so although they were on the pavement there was still plenty of space left for people to get by. Our route is from the bottom left corner of the picture, which has a corner just out of shot.
Thanks for all the replies and the interesting views. I had forgotten about the age of criminal responsibility being older than 4.

 

[400bhp]

I think this is a lot of the problem - people think it's preferable to get their cars out of the way of the traffic but they don't think (or care, in some cases) how their actions affect those who rely on an unobstructed pavement to get around safely.

There was someone else parked there today, but B was ready for it and managed the manoevre fine. I think there's probably closer to 2feet of pavement left between lamp-post and kerb, but it's still not much compared to the 8 or 9 feet on the other side of the lamp-post. My intention would never be wilful damage, much as I might be tempted that's not the example I want to set my daughter, but I was interested in how much clout a peeved car-owner might have, legally, if a small child did encounter a car blocking their way and couldn't brake/steer around in time. The photo is from Googlemaps, if you imagine a car parked a few yards behind the one shown, you can see the problem we had. The bent lamp-post would seem to tell a story too. The previous house-owners use to park right up by the fence and close to their front door, so although they were on the pavement there was still plenty of space left for people to get by. Our route is from the bottom left corner of the picture, which has a corner just out of shot.
Thanks for all the replies and the interesting views. I had forgotten about the age of criminal responsibility being older than 4.

Zero, zilch, nada, norfolk en chance.

The car is on the pavement and causing an obstruction-a child cannot be assumed to cause wilful damage as it's a child. End of.

 

[summerdays]

Today I was cycling along a double parked road and noticed a lady in a wheelchair on the road, a line of parked cars separating her from her child, as they chatted together. I assume there was insufficient space and because it was a line of cars (no driveways so cars parked practically nose to tail), that once in the road, she was unable to get back onto the pavement. The road is sufficiently narrow that cars are unable to pass me on a bike when they are double parked.

 

[Hebe]

Today I was cycling along a double parked road and noticed a lady in a wheelchair on the road, a line of parked cars separating her from her child, as they chatted together. I assume there was insufficient space and because it was a line of cars (no driveways so cars parked practically nose to tail), that once in the road, she was unable to get back onto the pavement. The road is sufficiently narrow that cars are unable to pass me on a bike when they are double parked.

That's awful. It reminded me of the local business estate, where someone on a mobility scooter has to go along the road because there are no dropped kerbs across the unit entrances.

 

[fossyant]

Get one of those 'I hope the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits' parking tickets, and slap that on the car - must be on the web somewhere

Like this:-

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/off-topic/206288-fake-parking-ticket-wtf.html

 

[trampyjoe]

<snip>

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/off-topic/206288-fake-parking-ticket-wtf.html

And to think, I only found the following picture this morning:

Saying that, the guy in that forum thread did get a bit of a flaming for parking like an idiot.

 

[trampyjoe]

Saw this today whilst walking to the shop - The building you can see in the background on the left is the local primary school!

2012-09-07 12.28.44 by trampyjoe, on Flickr