Pedestrians on shared/segregated cycle paths

[Time Waster]

I just looked at this thread for the first time out of curiosity. When you're late to such threads there's so much to catch up on. Can anyone summarise the thread so far? I just wonder if it's a thread with a fair discussion or just a chance to post anecdata about how the other side are so bad? I'm hoping there's a discussion on how to make shared use paths work or what to replace them with rather than a simple Complaint thread.

Genuinely I'm interested in how to make such available space work for both user types. Pug there's better designs or if it's just about culture of the society they're in. I seem to recall mixed use routes in the Netherlands worked OK when i cycled them.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I just looked at this thread for the first time out of curiosity. When you're late to such threads there's so much to catch up on. Can anyone summarise the thread so far? I just wonder if it's a thread with a fair discussion or just a chance to post anecdata about how the other side are so bad? I'm hoping there's a discussion on how to make shared use paths work or what to replace them with rather than a simple Complaint thread.

Genuinely I'm interested in how to make such available space work for both user types. Pug there's better designs or if it's just about culture of the society they're in. I seem to recall mixed use routes in the Netherlands worked OK when i cycled them.

I think part of the problem is that if one group gets better infrastructure the other will use it. In Tübingen the local government is redeveloping a section of the city in front of the railway station, and has just opened a swanky new wide cycles only route. Unfortunately, they've not yet opened the footpaths running parallel, so a fair number of pedestrians are walking along the clearly signed cycleway.

Equally unfortunately, a few hundred metres away an older cycleway, again parallel to the pedestrian footpath, was closed on a bridge, with no alternative route for cyclists (easily achieved by blocking five parking spaces and creating a temporary cycle lane) so guess where most cyclists go?

Further still, there's a tunnel for bikes and pedestrians with 2 cycle lanes and one pedestrian lane which works fairly well, because everyone has a defined space that's adequate for the traffic.

 

[wiggydiggy]

I just looked at this thread for the first time out of curiosity. When you're late to such threads there's so much to catch up on. Can anyone summarise the thread so far? I just wonder if it's a thread with a fair discussion or just a chance to post anecdata about how the other side are so bad? I'm hoping there's a discussion on how to make shared use paths work or what to replace them with rather than a simple Complaint thread.

Genuinely I'm interested in how to make such available space work for both user types. Pug there's better designs or if it's just about culture of the society they're in. I seem to recall mixed use routes in the Netherlands worked OK when i cycled them.

My impression from my own observation of spaces and this thread is that there seems to be 2 types of people* using a shared space. First we have those that are willing to share a space and regulate their behaviour accodingly and then we have those people that regard 'their' space as theirs and will not bend or adjust for anyone.

How to make it work? People could just be nice for a start. I did a few miles on a shared path Wed evening in the dark, I did my usual slowing down, dimming my light when oncoming people could be blinded etc Had quite a few 'Hellos' and 'Thanks/No Worries' from various people in response to my own 'Thanks' as we both adjusted behaviours. Strangely 3 of the more polite users were the 3 ninjas on motorbikes who passed me relatively slowly without comment, compared to a shadow in the dark that shouted 'tosser!' at me as I'd dared to turn my light on to make sure there was someone there!

The Netherlands routes have had many years of behaviours being taught and demonstrated to each other so that people do know how to use them, we're not there yet in the UK and TBH I doubt we ever will be.

* I am not differenciating between cyclists/horse riders/pedestrians/other users - people using the space are just people.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I just looked at this thread for the first time out of curiosity. When you're late to such threads there's so much to catch up on. Can anyone summarise the thread so far? I just wonder if it's a thread with a fair discussion or just a chance to post anecdata about how the other side are so bad? I'm hoping there's a discussion on how to make shared use paths work or what to replace them with rather than a simple Complaint thread.

Genuinely I'm interested in how to make such available space work for both user types. Pug there's better designs or if it's just about culture of the society they're in. I seem to recall mixed use routes in the Netherlands worked OK when i cycled them.

Here’s a bullet point summary of the thread:

- Discussion on interactions between pedestrians and cyclists on shared segregated paths.
- Participants share personal experiences and safety concerns.
- Issues raised about pedestrian behavior, such as walking in cycling areas.
- Importance of clear signage and markings to indicate shared spaces.
- Suggestions for better path design to enhance safety for both cyclists and pedestrians.
- Emphasis on mutual respect and etiquette among path users.
- Some members advocate for stricter enforcement of rules for both groups.

 

[fossyant]

I just looked at this thread for the first time out of curiosity. When you're late to such threads there's so much to catch up on. Can anyone summarise the thread so far?

Blah, blah, blah. Probably !

 

[Time Waster]

Here’s a bullet point summary of the thread:

- Discussion on interactions between pedestrians and cyclists on shared segregated paths.
- Participants share personal experiences and safety concerns.
- Issues raised about pedestrian behavior, such as walking in cycling areas.
- Importance of clear signage and markings to indicate shared spaces.
- Suggestions for better path design to enhance safety for both cyclists and pedestrians.
- Emphasis on mutual respect and etiquette among path users.
- Some members advocate for stricter enforcement of rules for both groups.

Thank you. It is just how I thought it was.

The third point is as I thought it would be too, but I think along the lines of what @wiggydiggy posted just above your post. It focuses too much on individual user types when it is more the case that there are those who use it cooperatively and those that do not. The mode of using it matters less than correct or more accurately cooperative use of it.

It is possible that people use them as pedestrians and cyclists as appropriate to their needs. I bet the pedestrians who misuse them would also misuse them on bikes and vice versa.

As an aside I really one use such paths in a few locations that are nowhere near where I live. There are not many near me anyway and those are not in places I go. However visiting relatives there are very many of these mixed use paths and I walk and cycle on them at times. I do not see anyone using them as strictly signed or intended. I too do not. I walk on cycle side and cycle pedestrian side at times. I do however move to the cycle side when going past pedestrians and move to the pedestrian side when a cycle approaches. I do however at times use the wrong side when the other user type is using the one I should be in.

ME the areas I go that have a lot of these paths there is a real wild west where anything goes. It works because the users assess and move across to pass each other safely. The actual markings on the path for particular users is not needed because there is a good attitude to path use in that collisions are rare IME, I have never seen it or seen any issue with cyclists / pedestrians. It might be that this location has an attitude closer to Dutch attitudes to mixed use of paths, and the cyclists/pedestrians potential for conflict. I think this is more important than anything in keeping users safe.

PS when we used route 1 in the netherlands for a tour and the side routes we used too, the paths were used not so much in a segregated way. There was a sense that cyclists reacted to keep both users safe irrespective of where they were on the path amnd pedestrians were aware and reacted as needed too. As I said, the cooperative attitude is there and it works because of it. Cyclist on e-cyclist issues were a bit of a new thing to me though. I mean getting overtaken by an elderly couple on bikes with a buzzing sound was something that took us a bitt too long to realise what was happening. I mean a cursory look they just seemed like shoppers!! However I soon learnt to shoulder check every time I heard the buzz to check which side they were going to overtake on and move as needed.

 

[MidnightRider]

First we have those that are willing to share a space and regulate their behaviour accordingly and then we have those people that regard 'their' space as theirs and will not bend or adjust for anyone.

This.

I used to work in an area with a wide pedestrian path, white line separated from a double wide bike path. Trying to use it was a nightmare as people often walked in groups and would do so all abreast, resulting in a move onto the bike path (or worse use both paths) so they could walk 4 or 5 people wide and not give way to anyone.

The opposite of this was one of my colleagues, who would when alone still walk right up the middle of the bicycle section "because I don't like cyclists".

What can you do?
Not a lot to be honest as many people have personalities inherently selfish, controlling or are just plain stupid, or pick any combination.

A white line is not enough, unless fines are brought in, just as they would be if you drove your car along pavements or if you obstructed the flow of traffic by wandering randomly all over the highway on foot. There is no one to police this, no one to impose fines or make laws to create fining opportunities. The next more community based "lets care for each other and co-operate" is for parents and schools to teach children from a very young age to be community spirited and walk/bike in the right places, which would need bike lanes etc to be much better and consistently marked (yes, a miracle is needed), but lets face it, as many parents are in the already mentioned personality categories, education is not going to happen either, just look at the number of child cyclists/illegal electric scooter riders weaving across roads, dressed in black with no lights after dark. The parents don't care about educating children re roads, even if it means thier kid or other people might die or be crippled for life. But then, equally thoughtless cyclists doing 15 mph+ on shared paths instead of moving to a road do nothing to promote safety or consideration either.

I try to use quiet roads rather than shared paths as there is less chance of a pedestrian causing me to become involved in an accident.
Its all rather sad really. It will never improve.

 

[presta]

Pedestrians have never been regulated: no keeping left, no checking behind & signalling, no give way line, so they aren't readily going to adapt to change. I've always steered clear of complaining it's inconvenient having to slow down for pedestrians for fear a motorist will point out that it's inconvenient slowing down for cyclists.

 

[captain nemo1701]

In Bristol, part of the pavement on Clarence Road parallel to the segregated cycle lane is blocked off as they repair the yellow 'banana bridge'. Further along, a section is shut off with Heras fencing as cracks in the asphalt suggest rotational slip of the riverbank - the 'New Cut', bit misleading as its about 200 years old and slipping into the river!. Anyway, peds walk in the cycle lane rather than cross over to the other side of the road. There should be signs, especially since the bridge is well out of action. They should just bite the bullet and fence of the whole side, it'll probably all need sheet piling in the future.

 

[united4ever]

Have this new bike lane on my commute (A56 Stretford).

https://maps.app.goo.gl/UWATYFvj83RZ5RB57?g_st=ac

The segregated path (still under construction in above link but now complete with markings etc) is one way with direction of traffic. I go the other direction so use the 'pavement' which is in fact a shared path (blue signs at the start where you leave canal towpath). Twice I have had people shouting 'cycle lane!' to me, pointing to the one way segregated path. I reply it's one way, this causes a pause as they realise this might be true, but then they shout after me 'You can't just ride on the pavement' by that time I am on my way.

Point is, a lot of Peds have zero clue. I suppose they don't have to do they? but it's annoying when they are shouting at you. One guy was quite aggressive.

 

[Drago]

One guy was quite aggressive.

Tell him to fornicate off. They'll set you up for the day ahead.

 

[Andy in Germany]

We have a similar situation in Tübingen where the local authority in its wisdom has built what they call a Blaue Welle or "blue wave" cycle path. This is one of the starting points:

Now, this is pretty obviously a cycle way. Not a shared use route, a cycleway. For bicycles, and my goodness but there's a lot of them.

However, this end is by the railway station and the other end is by sme important buildings and a "bicycles only" bridge over the railway line: entry ramp for the cyclway bridge is seen here. Notice lack of pedestrian facilities:

There are two pedestrian and mixed use crossings over the station, but they're about 500m away

Also, the parallel pedestrians-only footpath from the station to here is not finished yet.

So, hardly surprisingly people walk along the cycleway.

Bearing in mind the above, I kind of understand why people are walking down the cycleway. It is somewhat annoying though when they get stroppy about letting cyclists pass them.

The parallel footpath should be in place later this year but as it isn't visible from the bus station I don't think it will make a lot of difference.