Picnic PostNL culture of fear

[No Ta Doctor]

A big report in NOS.nl about the culture of Picnic PostNL, which is unlikely to help the team survive into next season, after a horrific season where Frits Biesterbos has just scored their third win - and first at WT level - in Guangxi. They're currently ranked 30th on the UCI points table, with only three PCT teams below them (two of them will fold the other is brand new)

The report alleges a culture of absolute disregard for riders, ultra strict management rules and riders fearful of management. We've heard bits of this before, a few riders leaving them have mentioned it - especially those leaving before their contract was done.

There's a second piece as well that's an interview with Roche, who was a seasoned pro and road captain when he signed for them, but they didn't want his input on anything. Apparently when Søren Kragh Andersen won a stage in the Tour in 2020 there was a discussion about why riders hadn't got in te break - they weren't interested in the improvisation on the road.

Picnic have responded saying they'll hold an independent investigation

All in Dutch, but Google translate works fine on the page

https://nos.nl/artikel/2635023-angs...-postnl-ik-dacht-eraan-mezelf-wat-aan-te-doen

The Roche interview

https://nos.nl/artikel/2635037-oud-...stnl-management-niet-geschikt-voor-wielrennen

Picnic response

https://nos.nl/artikel/2635052-picn...r-binnen-ploeg-en-wil-onafhankelijk-onderzoek

 

[M.R.M]

There I was feeling sorry for them for finding talents repeatedly, but losing them to bigger teams.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

There I was feeling sorry for them for finding talents repeatedly, but losing them to bigger teams.

I'm reminded that in 2015 Marcel Kittel (4 Tour stages including the Champs Elysée in 2014) had a rough illness hit spring and was dropped from the Tour squad, which he was somewhat less than happy about. So in spite of having a contract for next season he left and won two Giro stages and a Tour stage for Quickstep the season after and five Tour stages for them in 2017.

 

[M.R.M]

Yeah and I think there have been plenty of other similar cases; not quite that high profile, but it always seemed like they have great talent scouting and then the riders want to leave first chance. Seemed either ungrateful, or just reality of the marketplace, or Sunweb/Picnic being horrendous to work for.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

This interview with Picnic PostNL DS Callum Ferguson gives me bad vibes somehow. If feels very defensive and dismissive - which are signs of the type of communication riders were complaining about.

https://road.cc/news/picnic-postnl-...air-and-unjustified-claims-of-toxic-culture-o

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Degenkolb has piped up to say that he hasn't experienced a culture of fear and why didn't they talk to him?

https://www.cyclingnews.com/pro-cyc...genkolb-hits-back-at-picnic-postnl-criticism/

This all feels very familiar in so many different sporting contexts - different people thrive in different contexts, but often there's a "survivor bias" to what made a winning team. There are plenty of old pros in all sorts of sports saying that the kids are soft nowadays, having drummed all the "soft" kids out of their teams back in the day. It often sounds like Monty Python's Four Yorkshiremen sketch "When I were a lad we raced 300km with nowt but cold gravel in the musette and when we got home our DS would shout at us for being too fat and send us to bed without any dinner" "Aye, you were lucky though....". You still see it quite often in football, where the stars of the team berate younger teammates in front of the entire stadium (& TV cameras), as if that's actually going to help them play better rather than make them scared of making more mistakes. Eventually, players that didn't respond well to the public humiliation are moved on. If the team go on to achieve success it will then be described as "holding each other accountable" instead of bullying.

 

[M.R.M]

Didn't Bardet say similar? Maybe some riders were treated better and were lucky they didn't need to lower their saddle height...
Select favoritism wouldn't absolve Picnic/Sunweb in any way.

 

[No Ta Doctor]

Didn't Bardet say similar? Maybe some riders were treated better and were lucky they didn't need to lower their saddle height...
Select favoritism wouldn't absolve Picnic/Sunweb in any way.

When there are different perceptions of the culture it's often because some riders/trainers are trusted and others aren't - I think that's probably describable as favouritism, especially if the rewards for that trust aren't specified but include being able to get your saddle height adjusted outside the correct process...

 

[katiewlx]

This interview with Picnic PostNL DS Callum Ferguson gives me bad vibes somehow. If feels very defensive and dismissive - which are signs of the type of communication riders were complaining about.

https://road.cc/news/picnic-postnl-...air-and-unjustified-claims-of-toxic-culture-o

yes I thought that too, it felt like there's this positive spin bit at the start but the longer it goes on, you sort of see some cracks appear in it, that are all too reminiscent of the old well professional cycling is just this way, those that deal with it, do better and those that dont, complain and drop out, kind of attitude.

And I like how he claimed theres clearly no problem in the team, because even after Pfeiffer announced she was joining a new team, they kept picking her to ride, and its like well thats great but it just means you arent daft enough to cut one of your better riders off your team out of spite, thats like the minimum we expect from a professional run team, who want to win races.

and for a rider who has spent 8 seasons riding for them, is it just me that thinks its slightly odd he didnt seem that sure about her reasons for why she has left ? did no-one at the team ask her ? and also how little the team have acknowledged her time with the team or how they might miss her publicly, 8 seasons is a long time in pro cycling, thats sometimes longer than some riders whole careers at world tour level, so I dont know it all feels a little just weird thats all.