Ping Coppercyclist

[BigonaBianchi]

Hi..

I wondered if you can help?

If I get abused verbally or otherwise by a motorist/ van etc what exactly do the police need to pursue the matter and what will they then do once I report it?

Cheers

 

[CopperCyclist]

Ok, firstly the 'cynical' head. You need to make sure it gets crimed. Once something is crimed, it 'exists' and the force looks bad if they don't 'solve' it. So, how do you get it crimed? Well, presuming no assaults, you are looking at the Public Order Act 1986. Now, if you want the full, unabridged and entirely correct version of the law, go google it. If you want the basic, easy to explain version, this is it:

Section 5 P.O.: Someone acts in a way (words or behaviour) that may cause someone harassment, alarm or distress. Doesn't have to be directed. Lowest rung of the P.O. ladder and usually the one people get charged with, even when the situation better fits the below versions... (thank CPS for that, not the police, it's easier to prove...)
Section 4a: As above, but they direct it at a particular person. I.E. Motorist calls you a '**** of a cyclist, whose mother should go **** his ********* ****, ******', without actually getting out of his car or active threatening you. A directed insult.
Section 4: Has an element of a threat in it with an element of immediacy, I.e. he's gets out of the car shouting "I'm going to ******* knock your head off"

There are higher sections, but I'll focus on these. Call up, make sure a log is created (get the reference number), make sure they put onto the log the words and actions used against you, and how it made you feel. This makes it harder for the log to be written off later saying "Caller wasn't intimidated.... blah blah blah".

When the officer comes out to deal with it, don't let them leave without giving you a crime number. Conversly though, don't jump down their throat for it either - if you get someone who was going to deal with it correctly, this might put their back up. Let the officer deal with you, answer their questions honestly, but if they begin to leave without criming it, politely ask them for the crime number.

Home Office Crime Recording Rules state that if a crime is reported to the police, we HAVE to crime it. No choice on that. We DO have discretion to deal with certain crimes as we wish, so there is no requirement to HAVE to do anything, but we MUST crime it. Once that crime number exists, pressure then falls to 'solve' it rather than leave it an undetected crime.

So part one, get a crime number.

I'm blathering on, bear with me, part two in a short bit and it'll reference what can be done, and what evidence we need...

 

[BigonaBianchi]

...cool..thanks!

I know it's best to keep calm and say nothing if assaulted in that way (PO as above...not physical) ...but if..woe betide...one should call the driver a **** or a ****** ****** etc in retaliation, whats the deal then? Is that a PO offense against them?

Is there anything at all that can be done with jus tpart of th ereg or no reg no ?

..I'm jus teducating myself here...so next time it happens (and it seems to happen almost every ride here) I will know what to do to 'get them' brought to book as it were.

 

[CopperCyclist]

Part 2: What do you want done, and what do we need to do it...

(Presumption made that you have the cars registration number)

1. Nothing. I just want it recorded (perhaps in case the driver does anything similar later).
Ok, easy. Here's your crime number, it'll now be filed. Job done, nothing more needed from you.

2. I just want you to have a word with the driver.
This can be dealt with easily enough as a community resolution. It should require nothing more from you that you signing a form with the details of the crime on it, and that your wishes are just for the driver to be spoken to. You sign it, nothing more needed and we can 'have a word' with the driver.

3. I want a letter of apology from the driver.
Yep, we can do this too! Same form as above, it'd still form a community resolution, however the difference here is if the driver refuses to participate. If he refuses to accept blame, and/or won't apologise, you have the choice of falling back to 'forget it' or moving on to 4.

4. I want him charged.
Ok. You'll need to be willing to go to court and give evidence. It surprises me how many people think they can make a complaint and get someone prosecuted, without them (the complainant) going to court. If you're still on board, we'll need a statement from you. An officer will take this, but VikeOnABike has a post which is stickied giving a good example of how it should turn out.
Now, we need something else. Your word against the drivers will NEVER be enough, sorry but that's just the way it is, and that's the burden of proof in our justice system - which isn't a bad thing. So what else will do?

1. A non-independent witness also willing to attend court: I.e. your mate who was riding behind you. It helps, but probably won't be enough for CPS by itself.
2. An independent witness willing to attend court: spot on - this should be enough, as long as the witnesses account agrees with yours (which they won't always, memories aren't perfect)
3. CCTV/Helmet cam footage: If it shows the offence clearly, this is spot on. It can't 'remember wrong', it can only show what happened. If you have it, get it burnt off onto a CD or DVD disc in a widely playable format ready for the officer when they come round. Have it available to show them as well.

Now, after ALL that, if you want to go to court, and you have the above, then it COULD... but this doesn't mean it will. There are never any guarantees. The offender might be of good previous conduct, and end up receiving a formal caution instead. The officer dealing may end up deciding its better to deal with them by a fixed penalty for Section 5 P.O. The owner of the vehicle might turn up to not be the driver on the day in question, and refuse to name them (a separate offence, which Gaz has successfully had someone charged with). The car might not be registered to an address and may never be found... there are countless possible scenarios, where even with all the evidence, things might just not go our way. Either way, the officer should keep you informed of what's happening with the case all the way through.

So, to summarise my wall of text...

1. Get a crime number
2. Explain clearly and calmly what you actually want
3. Stick with it, and ask for regular updates from the police

 

[CopperCyclist]

...cool..thanks!

I know it's best to keep calm and say nothing if assaulted in that way (PO as above...not physical) ...but if..woe betide...one should call the driver a **** or a ****** ****** etc in retaliation, whats the deal then? Is that a PO offense against them?

Is there anything at all that can be done with jus tpart of th ereg or no reg no ?

..I'm jus teducating myself here...so next time it happens (and it seems to happen almost every ride here) I will know what to do to 'get them' brought to book as it were.

If you call them names in *retaliation*, then understandable as it is, no its not going to help your case. The courts don't generally accept the 'but he started it' argument! Stay calm if you can. There are plenty of times in law when people's action are understandable, but still illegal (brother punching the lights out of his sisters husband after she was battered by him). We understand WHY you'd swear back, but that doesn't make it easier!

Part Regs can be used, but it depends on how much you get. I believe on modern plates the numbers and last three letters is normally more than enough, but operators can 'play about' with less and see what they get - can be hit or miss though.

If its happening to you that often, head cam footage is the way to go - AND STAYING CALM!

I often look at another CC users footage - ScriptChickBass, on you tube spelt something crazy like Szzrtckbass - he shows excellent riding, and some genuinely bad driving against him. Unfortnately, he also tends to give drivers the finger and voice his opinion of them too! Deserved perhaps, but as a defendant or a defence solicitor, there's nothing to disprove a case of 'I was provoked m'lud, he was driving in front of me giving me the self-gratification artist sign the whole way'. Also imagine if the defence solicitor was bothered enough to go through his entire you tube clips, and splice together footage of every self-gratification artist sign or middle finger he could, produce it as 'evidence' of the manner in which the witness chooses to cycle... wouldn't look good.

So, helmet cam + calm is the way to go.

Except for - before someone else says it - looking at yourself. It shouldn't be normal to get that many incidents. I've had one in a year!

 

[fossyant]

BOAB - report it - I gave a fair amount of abuse to a guy that tried to run me off the road, and the Police took it seriously. Ended up with intelligence on the vehicle as it was one word vs other. The car was 'known' already.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Very useful information there, Coppercyclist. Thanks.

 

[BigonaBianchi]

Thanks...most helpful....and to hear it from a two wheeled 'copper' has more meaning..at least I know it's taken seriously in the event of it happening. Yes it does happen a lot here. I ride a lot on A roads along the coast, and most of the abuse comes from van drivers...you know the ones with three in th efront seat, no shirts etc...yep..them. Also funnily enough I hav ehad several incidents with old ladies...not looking pulling out onto th eroad in front of me and narrowly missing me...then winding down the window to 'explain' that I shouldnt be on the road!....the real danger I see very ride though is impatiant drivers overtaking me across double white lines on blind bends or hill tops then cutting me up to avoid a head on collisison of their making.

So helmet cam it is for me then.

Chees mate!

 

[rusky]

Don't forget operation crackdown https://webcontact.sussex.police.uk/asdprs/ I reported the same car twice in one month, I wonder what happened to him?!?