Pivot E Vault report #1

[Tomm Williams]

Today had my first chance to give it a proper test run, I’ll give you the good and the bad. The good …… taking it strictly from the perspective of Pivot bikes quality, this is one very nice bike. It handles very well and the fit and finish is exactly what you’d expect from a bike costing this much money. I found it every bit as well fitting as my previous Diverge (which I loved) so transitioning from one to another was seamless.

The bad…… I tried using the Fazua app to make some slight changes to the power profile but I could not get the app to work properly. Patrick at Pivot has been assisting me in getting this resolved and I’m sure it will work out.

The really bad…… one of the complaints I’ve heard about the Fazua System (NOT Pivot) is that the range is quite short, anywhere from 20-50 miles. Well I drained my battery in TEN miles and the system acted as though it was turning on and off every 3-5 seconds, not sure what happened there 😕
I contacted my LBS who sold me the bike and they immediately contacted Pivot to see what the heck. These are some TOP quality people so I expect my next report to be much more positive but today ehhhh….. first world problems 😄

 

[gzoom]

The really bad…… one of the complaints I’ve heard about the Fazua System (NOT Pivot) is that the range is quite short, anywhere from 20-50 miles.

The Fazua system really isn't designed for long rides if you are using the support all the time. Like any eBike you can make the battery last as long or as short as you like.

On my Fazua powered Boardman 8.9e I can drain the battery in under 15 miles in the middle of winter when going into a headwind but hitting 20mph with support*. But equally I've done 50 miles+ using about 70% charge with minimal support.

Looking at your gearing setup I suspect you are using the motor constantly with the Pivot? In which case 20-50 miles is perfectly normal given the usage.

The options are to get a 2nd battery, or swap it for one of the monster eBikes with a 500wh+ battery. But those bike weigh substantially more and its questionable how much difference your legs can make, so they are essentially assisted only eBike, where as a most Fazua bikes are designed to be used mainly as human powered with some assistance here and there.

*Speedlimter on my Boardman may be faulty.

 

[Tomm Williams]

Now that’s interesting because I’ve never heard that before. However 10 miles is still considerably below what they claim as it’s range and the “pulsing” issue definitely needs to be addressed.

 

[Tomm Williams]

Gzoom I’m going to disagree with your statement concerning how Pivot speaks to the longevity of a single charge as this page from their website seems to indicate otherwise. However I will be in contact with them addressing these issues and will bring this specific question up.

 

[gzoom]

@Tomm Williams All I can report is my experience of using my Boardman eBike with a Fazua motor for the last 3 years, and more recently the Creo, and having owned/used an EV as our main family car since 2015.

I would ignore anything companies put on marketing materials, nothing can beat the laws of physics. Based on physics, 15mph up a 7% incline will require over 500watts of sustained power, assuming system weight of 85kg in perfect conditions (5mph headwind). That means you will drain the battery on the Fazua pack in less than 30 minutes - assuming you put in 250watts + another 250 watts of sustained output from motor. The reality is with heat/drive train efficiency losses, you will almost certainly empty the battery pack in less than 15 minutes if really pushing it at 250watts constant drainage.

That will probably be just about within 2000ft of climbing but range will be sub 10 miles.

I hope you get the outcome you want, but physics sadly cannot be changed by anyone from marketing! The Fazua motor/battery setup is very good for what its main design/purpose - light support but mainly human powered. If you want mainly battery supported riding over a long day, I would look at the 20kg+ eBikes with monster battery packs versus the lighter weight ones.

https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage

https://www.omnicalculator.com/construction/elevation-grade

 

[Tomm Williams]

My intention here is to report my findings and not what Pivot or Fazua might rather I say. You may well be right in the end but my trials will show at least what I find in my unscientific research into this. Im approaching this as just a guy who bought an Ebike and here’s what I found……..

 

[Tomm Williams]

Took the Pivot out last night after confirming I had a full charge and was pleased with the power consumption. The ride was very tame with not much climbing at all and only 10 miles in distance. This is a monthly full moon ride our group does so the pace is very mellow.
By the end of the route I still had 5 (max) charge indicators glowing so much better (though much different route) than the first test. I’m also wondering if I truly had a full charge on that first test ride.
This morning I took it out again in my local neighborhood which is nothing but hill after hill after hill. This time I followed gzooms advice and was selective with using the assistance and ended up riding another 8+miles climbing 1200’ and went down to 4 charge indicators. (The bike was not recharged from last nights ride) so at this point I’ve ridden 18 miles with about 1700’of climbing using one charge indicator but being selective how I used it.

Still cannot get the app to work to customize the power profile but I’m sure Pivot will work on that with me.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Took the Pivot out last night after confirming I had a full charge and was pleased with the power consumption. The ride was very tame with not much climbing at all and only 10 miles in distance. This is a monthly full moon ride our group does so the pace is very mellow.
By the end of the route I still had 5 (max) charge indicators glowing so much better (though much different route) than the first test. I’m also wondering if I truly had a full charge on that first test ride.
This morning I took it out again in my local neighborhood which is nothing but hill after hill after hill. This time I followed gzooms advice and was selective with using the assistance and ended up riding another 8+miles climbing 1200’ and went down to 4 charge indicators. (The bike was not recharged from last nights ride) so at this point I’ve ridden 18 miles with about 1700’of climbing using one charge indicator but being selective how I used it.

Still cannot get the app to work to customize the power profile but I’m sure Pivot will work on that with me.

That sounds more reasonable and like I would expect

glad to see it seems to have sorted itself out!

 

[Tomm Williams]

That sounds more reasonable and like I would expect

glad to see it seems to have sorted itself out!

At least some issues, the motor is still “pulsing” or such but it’s not very noticeable and only under certain circumstances, it might be part of the design? I still have a few more things I want to evaluate and report on before I’m through.

 

[richtea]

It really shouldn't pulse - that sounds faulty to me. We have a Fazua system bike, and it's buttery smooth.
I also confirm Gzoom's description of how Fazua bikes behave in terms of power and likely range.

 

[Drago]

Gzoom I’m going to disagree with your statement concerning how Pivot speaks to the longevity of a single charge as this page from their website seems to indicate otherwise. However I will be in contact with them addressing these issues and will bring this specific question up.

The question of range is a chimaera. I can do 10,000 miles on a charge on any ebike should I so choose.

 

[gzoom]

Agree with @richtea motor should be smooth.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

The question of range is a chimaera. I can do 10,000 miles on a charge on any ebike should I so choose.

Agreed - just put mine into "off" mode and I can pedal all day with no charge worries

same with my point about riding above the cutoff speed - stay above that and zero charge is used

On our Carrera ebike we got a manual (well - more like user guide) that has an intersting chart of how much power the motor uses at different speeds in different modes
basically high mode uses full power until nearly 15 mph then drops off quickly
low mode drops off slowly from a slower speed

If I can find it easily I will take a phot and post it - possibly creat another thread to discuss how the different systems deal with it

 

[Pale Rider]

Still cannot get the app to work to customize the power profile

While I understand you want every feature to work correctly, the Fazua is such a light assist motor, tinkering with the power levels won't make much noticeable difference.

Ebike batteries are known not to give their full charge until they have been charged/discharged a few times.

It seems yours is already performing close to spec, so I'm guessing all is well on that front.

 

[Tomm Williams]

While I understand you want every feature to work correctly, the Fazua is such a light assist motor, tinkering with the power levels won't make much noticeable difference.

Ebike batteries are known not to give their full charge until they have been charged/discharged a few times.

It seems yours is already performing close to spec, so I'm guessing all is well on that front.

My most important goal is to reduce what they term “ramp up” meaning the initial take off force. Right now it’s too high, feels like I’m being shot out of a cannon. I want to adjust the lowest power level to be barely perceptible.