planning a Brevet - Advice needed

[steveindenmark]

I have never ridden an Audax but hope to join the Denmark Audax Club next year and do some rides. I would also like to submit some Permanents for my area as there do not appear to be any in my area.

They would be 160km rides. I am used to planning long rides for my own use and I my routes past churches for water and toilets and supermarkets, cafes etc. I add all these points to my route so I can print out a route card and see what is ahead.

Is this the type of thing I should be adding to a route that I intend to submit. The Audax scene is all new to me.

Any advice about what I should add would be appreciated. The 100mile route is 161km. Should I make it slightly longer and if so by how many kms?

This is a route I have roughed out. I hope you can open it.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/4494...26684,9.23938999999999&overlay=roadmap&zoom=9

 

[DCLane]

I can't see the route but I'd be looking for:

- Potential stop points that can be used as 'controls'; i.e. a cafe that might also have a cash machine/information point nearby.
- Some interesting things to see en route
- Avoiding busy roads

That's about all for me, but then I'm easily pleased. I am known for throwing the bike down a dual-carriageway though just to save time; i.e. the A38 on the 'Everybody Goes to Skeggy 300' and the A55 Expressway from Holyhead on the 'Llanfair 400' but most prefer quiet roads away from traffic.

Oh, and no stupid climbs just for the sake of it at the end. Moors & Wolds 400 I'm thinking of you ...

 

[Dogtrousers]

I've never ridden a Permananet audax so it's not my thing, but I do have a vague memory of reading about the rules/guidelines. Now this is from memory and I could have made it all up, and perhaps it was referring to DIYs (which I've also never done) not Permanents but anyway ...

Control placement is important. You have to set it up so that, whatever route people take round your controls, they will always end up with the desired distance (or more). So that there's no way for riders to go below the target distance by taking short-cuts. That's why controls on an Audax are typically at the extreme points where the route changes direction. I've got a vague memory of a rule-of-thumb that says a google routing around your controls with navigation mode set to walking should be equal to or greater than the target distance.

It also means that if you put in a particularly pleasant but very wiggly bit of route then you'll need lots of controls to ensure people ride all the wiggles of that particular section if there is a handy shortcut nearby.

I'm sure someone who really knows what they are on about will be along shortly.

Edit, your route looks vaguely/roughly like a rectangle, so a control at each corner should do it.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I can't see the route but

This link works https://ridewithgps.com/routes/44948374/

 

[DCLane]

Thanks @Dogtrousers

Looking at that you'll need control points at each 'corner', so I'd suggest a control at Brunde, another at Agerskov (it'd be possible to go straight there from Hellevad but wouldn't save much time/distance, one at Askov/Vejen, one at Vonsild plus a final finish control.

 

[iluvmybike]

I'd have thought you need to consult the Danish equivalent of Audax UK for their rules & regs on these events?

 

[Ajax Bay]

Any advice about what I should add would be appreciated. The 100mile route is 161km. Should I make it slightly longer and if so by how many kms?

The controls you choose (for 161km no more than 4, plus start & finish, which don't have to be the same place) will define the route.
After a first stab I use Google maps walking to tell me what the minimum distance between the controls might be, and it also might point to a route choice option that I hadn't spotted. It also may go off a metalled road/cycle track so may need tweaking.
The minimum distance thing only matters when you're trying to design 100s, 200s, 300s etc: otherwise noone cares.
https://www.audax.uk/choose-a-ride/permanent-events/
I recommend you read the detail (which is for calendars but can be adapted to inform perm planning) here: https://www.audax.uk/about-audax/organisers/organisers-handbook/ and scroll down about 20 to 'Planning your Route'.
John, Audax UK's Perm Sec will just be interested in the route's integrity, the availability of 'proofs of passage' at each control, and your appraisal of any safety issues. Lat/longs of the points, shop or ATM, and what you want to call the ride.
For @iluvmybike AudaxUK will, aiui, accept perms in a foreign land, and indeed have several on the books: see https://perms.audax.uk/

 

[steveindenmark]

The controls you choose (for 161km no more than 4, plus start & finish, which don't have to be the same place) will define the route.
After a first stab I use Google maps walking to tell me what the minimum distance between the controls might be, and it also might point to a route choice option that I hadn't spotted. It also may go off a metalled road/cycle track so may need tweaking.
The minimum distance thing only matters when you're trying to design 100s, 200s, 300s etc: otherwise noone cares.
https://www.audax.uk/choose-a-ride/permanent-events/
I recommend you read the detail (which is for calendars but can be adapted to inform perm planning) here: https://www.audax.uk/about-audax/organisers/organisers-handbook/ and scroll down about 20 to 'Planning your Route'.
John, Audax UK's Perm Sec will just be interested in the route's integrity, the availability of 'proofs of passage' at each control, and your appraisal of any safety issues. Lat/longs of the points, shop or ATM, and what you want to call the ride.
For @iluvmybike AudaxUK will, aiui, accept perms in a foreign land, and indeed have several on the books: see https://perms.audax.uk/

Thanks for this. Does all the route have to be metalled roads and do I make it as close to 161km as possible or slightly longer?. Adjusting the route I have already devised is very easy as most of it is on very quiet roads. I will look at those links and see what I can learn from them.

 

[Ajax Bay]

No, the route doesn't have to be metalled, but consider what sort of riders/bikes might accept the challenge (and who might be put off). The length really doesn't matter unless it's just less than a hundred km or multiple thereof.
For example I have a route ready to roll out: a diagonal of Wales, and back. It's 608km as recommended, but a rider could, choosing poorer but more direct roads, get it down to just over 600. My controls are carefully chosen to take that into account.
My firm recommendation is that you do a DIY on the route and see how that goes: whomever you choose to buy your DIY brevets from will be a source of knowledge. This is 'walk before you run' advice: not the physical aspect but the albeit simple admin (entry/control list) stuff.
https://www.audax.uk/choose-a-ride/do-it-yourself-diy-events/

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I presume you intend to register these permanents under Audax Denmark? In which case you need to speak to them. They may need you to have ridden a few of their Audax’s first, be known to them, and register as a new organiser. In Audax UK we have a mentoring setup for organisers and I’m sure they will likely do something similar in Denmark. Your mentor will help you will any questions you might have.

 

[Polecat]

One of the great advantages of a permanent over a brevet is that you decide for yourself when you want to ride it and you do not have to stay on the route, just hit the controls.

 

[Dogtrousers]

One of the great advantages of a permanent over a brevet is that you decide for yourself when you want to ride it and you do not have to stay on the route, just hit the controls.

To be fair, the same is true of most audaxes. I've been known to go off-piste when the route goes through areas that I know well, and I have a preferred route. I did discuss this with one organiser once, as I took my regular route to the next control and the published course deviated off on longer, smaller, much hillier roads. It felt a bit like cheating but I did it anyway and the organiser had no problem when I mentioned it.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

To be fair, the same is true of most audaxes. I've been known to go off-piste when the route goes through areas that I know well, and I have a preferred route. I did discuss this with one organiser once, as I took my regular route to the next control and the published course deviated off on longer, smaller, much hillier roads. It felt a bit like cheating but I did it anyway and the organiser had no problem when I mentioned it.

Remember this is Denmark our OP is referring to. Their perms may be mandatory route.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Good reason for registering them in UK, then. As I said:
"AudaxUK will, aiui, accept perms in a foreign land, and indeed have several on the books: see https://perms.audax.uk/"

 

[Ian H]

I'd have thought you need to consult the Danish equivalent of Audax UK for their rules & regs on these events?

I don't know if they have such things as permanent events or even ones validated only nationally. But AUK perms can be ridden anywhere and validated in the UK. They aren't recognised outside AUK.