PM Tonight – Radio 4 5pm

[TwickenhamCyclist]

PM Tonight – Radio4 5pm
(Thursday 10 Sep)

Will be looking at the question of cycle lanes being counter productive – debating a "report" that has coem out suggesting that they are more dangerous for cyclists...

 

[cheadle hulme]

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[u9ge]

was in the times today, CTC had backed some research, look on BR for the link

 

[hackbike 666]

What does CTC say about this?

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

Fairy short piece –
CTC Rep was good, I thought.
Broadly supportive of findings – that cycle lanes are too narrow, and that they do encourage motorists to over take closer than they might otherwise do if no lane present.
CTC were in favoure of some cycle lanes but, felt that, in the few cases they were needed, they should be of much better design

Spoke about research on non cycling motorists of who some 80% say that more cycle lanes would encourage them to start cycling, while with motorists who do cycle, only some 2% wanted more lanes – their issue was with speed, poor carriageways and bad drivers (queue only real “question” from the presenter being the inevitable “but what would you say to motorists who complain about cyclists weaving in and out of the traffic and jumping red lights” (said in a kind of Daily Mail/Alan Partridge way, if you know what I mean)). Could almost hear CTC man sigh, pointed out that there were idiots of all kinds on the road, not just cyclists…

 

[hackbike 666]

Sorry I do don't really care too much about non cycling motorists.They are entitled to their opinions but mainly I think it is bull.I dont mean that in a bad way either.

 

[PBancroft]

I think its probably a good point. I was interested by the bit where they said that government guidance was that cycle lanes should be 2 metres wide. I spoke with the DfT a while back about minimum standards for cycle facilities, and I was told:-

As far as design of safe road infrastructure is concerned, there is no need (nor desire) to make centrally produced guidance mandatory. Highway authorities have a duty of care under the Road Traffic Regulation Act, section 122 to ensure their roads are safe for users.

Most highway authorities follow our guidance but there is nothing to prevent them from using locally developed design guidance as long as safety is not compromised.

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

Sorry I do don't really care too much about non cycling motorists.They are entitled to their opinions but mainly I think it is bull.I dont mean that in a bad way either.

Fair point – and I think that the research backs up your claim that non cyclists opinions are bull.

I think what they were trying to illustrate is that people who don’t cycle will often say that the provision of more “cycling facilities” ,ie cycle lanes, is what would encourage them to cycle, while those that do cycle know how useless most lanes are and therefore don’t want more provision.

That part of the research was done by the ABD, which is why I guess they divided the respondents into cycling and non-cycling motorists. Suppose it depends on how the questions were posed; Open or closed etc.

Most non-cyclists I know assume that all cyclists like, and want more ,cycle lanes
(they also think that cyclists hate going up hills and can’t understand how anyone can cycle more than 3 miles and not drop dead, think that helmets prevent accidents etc…)

I think some of the “I would cycle if there were more lanes” answers were honest, but deeply suspect that the majority of people say what they think the questioner wants to hear, but would never change their behaviour.

Why I think it is relevant thought is that there are far more non-cyclists out there, and that includes the decision makers who decide upon provision…

 

[skudupnorth]

The cycle lanes (paint on the road side) i would use have been carved up by motorists or are full of debris which forces me further out in the road.If i do manage to use the painted trip then it normally ends up as another lane for our 4 wheeled friends to use
The only one i have actually used properly is the Trans Pennine which thankfully cars cannot creep on to !!!!

 

[XmisterIS]

I'm going to sound like a heretic here ... but I actually like cycle lanes! In my neck of the woods, they tend to be sufficiently wide and clean.

I feel much safer on roads that have cycle lanes rather than those without.

Round where I live, the lanes tend to be at least 1 metre wide, often 2 metres and drivers seem much more careful when overtaking me when I'm in a cycle lane compared to when I'm not.

Cars driving in cycle lanes is not common (this happens to me perhaps once every two or three jouneys) and I feel that the cycle lane ensures that I won't get scalped by a cager! I get some very close passes when there is no cycle lane, but almost none where there is a cycle lane.

 

[HJ]

Originally Posted by Mrs E S Kamellard from DfT
As far as design of safe road infrastructure is concerned, there is no need (nor desire) to make centrally produced guidance mandatory. Highway authorities have a duty of care under the Road Traffic Regulation Act, section 122 to ensure their roads are safe for users.

Most highway authorities follow our guidance but there is nothing to prevent them from using locally developed design guidance as long as safety is not compromised.

That is a great joke, it is a joke isn't it

I regularly see cycle lanes which put cyclist at risk, the sort which:
encourage filtering up to a traffic light with a left filter
that keep the cyclist out of the way when the road is wide, then when the road narrows they stop and direct the novice cyclist into the traffic
and so on

 

[PBancroft]

That is a great joke, it is a joke isn't it

I regularly see cycle lanes which put cyclist at risk, the sort which:
encourage filtering up to a traffic light with a left filter
that keep the cyclist out of the way when the road is wide, then when the road narrows they stop and direct the novice cyclist into the traffic
and so on

I know - I have every intention of taking this up with the DfT (sadly you rarely speak with the same person). Unfortunately I'm expecting not much in response - I think they are the sort of organisation where they are happy to take the credit, but happier to pass the buck.