Presumed liability

[chris-suffolk]

Copied from another bike forum:

Petition for adoption of a law of presumed liability to protect vulnerable road users:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/580595

Just north of Cranebridge a mother was walking on a path with her baby beside the A10. A vehicle careered off the road killing the baby and hospitalising the mother. This family should not have to wait for an inquest in three years time held in secret at a location 50 miles away before they can get redress for this crash. The compensation as a vulnerable road user should be instant and there should be presumed liability of the motor vehicle. No ifs or buts or delays or money grabbing lawyers. The family needs instant support.

Additionally the mayor of Cranebridgeshire wants to dual-carriage the A10. Not one mention of having a proper path set back from the road with a protective verge. The A10 is a killer road for pedestrians and cyclists and shamefully the mayor wants to do nothing about it.

 

[Slick]

Copied from another bike forum:

Petition for adoption of a law of presumed liability to protect vulnerable road users:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/580595

Just north of Cranebridge a mother was walking on a path with her baby beside the A10. A vehicle careered off the road killing the baby and hospitalising the mother. This family should not have to wait for an inquest in three years time held in secret at a location 50 miles away before they can get redress for this crash. The compensation as a vulnerable road user should be instant and there should be presumed liability of the motor vehicle. No ifs or buts or delays or money grabbing lawyers. The family needs instant support.

Additionally the mayor of Cranebridgeshire wants to dual-carriage the A10. Not one mention of having a proper path set back from the road with a protective verge. The A10 is a killer road for pedestrians and cyclists and shamefully the mayor wants to do nothing about it.

I've signed it but can't see it going anywhere, unfortunately.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try thought.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Long overdue. Netherlands had it since 1990. Only Malta, Cyprus, Romania, Ireland and UK don't have it. Note the countries involved here, not great company.

 

[mjr]

Long overdue. Netherlands had it since 1990. Only Malta, Cyprus, Romania, Ireland and UK don't have it. Note the countries involved here, not great company.

Aye. Generally high levels of cycling seems to come first, but let's give it a go!

 

[Drago]

No, not for me, thank you.

For a start there's little actual evidence that it reduces casualty rates, so wheres the imperative?

Aside from which, the author of the petition couldn't even spell so has lost what tiny slither of credibility they had remaining after typing their inaccurate and unsubstantiated introduction.

 

[chris-suffolk]

Taken from the Guardian:


"In France in the 1980s they had really unacceptable levels of cycling fatalities, and then in 1984 they introduced a system of presumed liability.

In the two decades that followed they had a reduction of over 60% in fatalities.

It wouldn’t be right to attribute that entirely to the change in the law - there are all sorts of other factors that come into play. But France is similar to the UK in terms of there being not much segregated cycling infrastructure, and yet it’s safer to cycle in France than in the UK."

 

[Brandane]

But France is similar to the UK in terms of there being not much segregated cycling infrastructure, and yet it’s safer to cycle in France than in the UK."

Having cycled in France (as have you!) I would dare to suggest that there is much more to it than that. France has a modern and well maintained road network, for a start. The toll motorways take an awful lot of traffic away from the "N" roads, which in turn take a lot of traffic off the minor roads, leaving the minor roads as a great network for cyclists - and there are a LOT of them! It will of course help that France is nowhere near as densely populated as our own over-crowded island where a network of roads like France will only ever remain a dream.
UK population density in 2020 was 278 people per square kilometre. France population density in 2020 was 118 people per square kilometre!

 

[Chris S]

There are too many scammers for presumed liability to work in the UK. Cyclists and pedestrians would be taking dives and then putting in huge insurance claims, like motorists do with 'crash for cash' scams.

 

[Chris S]

RE: "Adopt presumed liability as we see in other European countries, where the larger vehicle is presumed to be liable for collisions, to help protect vulnerable road users."

Motorists are already slamming their brakes on in front of lorries.
https://www.truckanddriver.co.uk/latest-stories/truck-and-driver-news/crash-for-cash-sentence/

 

[HMS_Dave]

It's all academic anyway. When the government get their own way and charge you tax per mile it's going to be too expensive for Betty to go to the Bingo or Colin Chav in his Corsa with a "fart in a can" exhaust to mow you down anyway...

 

[Chris S]

There are too many scammers for presumed liability to work in the UK. Cyclists and pedestrians would be taking dives and then putting in huge insurance claims, like motorists do with 'crash for cash' scams.

Does this happen in the nations where it is already in place?
Is it more likely to happen in the UK? If so, why?
Genuine questions as I have no idea.

The UK had a higher incidence of vehicle theft than other European countries prior to the introduction of microchip security systems. Some crimes do seem to occur more often in certain countries.

 

[Chris S]

I doubt it given the UK's compensation culture.

 

[raleighnut]

There are too many scammers for presumed liability to work in the UK. Cyclists and pedestrians would be taking dives and then putting in huge insurance claims, like motorists do with 'crash for cash' scams.

Don't talk hairy spheroids, the day we see cyclists 'taking a dive' and hoping they don't die is long off.

 

[Brandane]

Don't talk hairy spheroids, the day we see cyclists 'taking a dive' and hoping they don't die is long off.

Perhaps not cyclists as we know them at present, but I can see @Chris S point. Once they realise there is cash to be made, a certain type of person will be quick to take up riding a bike in traffic, and will be unfortunate enough to have an "accident" whereby he is knocked off by a car. Of course, his fellow "cyclist" will just happen to be nearby to witness it.
The compensation culture in which we unfortunately live makes presumed liability a recipe for disaster IMHO.. Fraudulent insurance claims will be even more widespread than they already are, and the cost will simply be passed onto the customer, i.e. you and I.
There is a good video somewhere, I will try to find it. Scooterist caught on dashcam pushing his scooter backwards into the front of a car, in readiness for one such claim.

 

[mjr]

But France is similar to the UK in terms of there being not much segregated cycling infrastructure, and yet it’s safer to cycle in France than in the UK."

That's not true any more, is it? France has been building far faster than the UK, led by Paris building on a scale that London's mayors can only dream of, with the arrondissements being much less powerful than London boroughs. http://amenagements-cyclables.fr/fr/facilities