Problems with new drivetrain

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Spiderweb

Not So Special One
Location
North Yorkshire
 
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autolycus

autolycus

Über Member
Location
Surrey
I'm digesting the information you kindly provided, but i don't quite understand the question. It's a Sram X7 but i don't know what capacity it is or what you mean by 16-24.
Going to first principles, if i wrap the chain around the large/large combination it 'overlaps' by half a link. That's without including the 'missing link'. So effectively one whole link (1 inch), which i understand is about the optimum length. So i'm a bit confused.
chain1.jpg
 

Spiderweb

Not So Special One
Location
North Yorkshire
I'm digesting the information you kindly provided, but i don't quite understand the question. It's a Sram X7 but i don't know what capacity it is or what you mean by 16-24.
Going to first principles, if i wrap the chain around the large/large combination it 'overlaps' by half a link. That's without including the 'missing link'. So effectively one whole link (1 inch), which i understand is about the optimum length. So i'm a bit confused.
View attachment 130505
I'm not sure what 16-24 means, hopefully Ajax bay will be along shortly to explain.
What I do know is a SRAM X7 is a long cage derailleur suitable to handle the capacity of a 36T cog.

If you put the chain on the smaller front cog will it then move onto the 36T rear?
If it does then your chain is too short, if it doesn't then the problem is elsewhere.
 
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autolycus

autolycus

Über Member
Location
Surrey
Thanks Spiderweb. That seems to be the consensus. I was just slightly confused because looking at the sheldon brown site, a full link overlap (which mine is when you add on the 'missing' link) is supposed to be optimum. I was trying to take the scientific approach rather than just guess how long a chain i need. Never a good idea :-)
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
I said 16 + 24 not 16-24 with regard to capacity ie can it wrap enough for the 50-34 chainwheel difference PLUS the cassette range (I'm assuming 12-36) of 24. I have looked at the X7 specs but cannot find a capacity stated, however I'm sure that it'll have a capacity of more than 40 so you're fine.
 
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Spiderweb

Not So Special One
Location
North Yorkshire
image.png
Thanks Spiderweb. That seems to be the consensus. I was just slightly confused because looking at the sheldon brown site, a full link overlap (which mine is when you add on the 'missing' link) is supposed to be optimum. I was trying to take the scientific approach rather than just guess how long a chain i need. Never a good idea :-)
Park Tools suggest 2 links overlap so, although there is not much in it, your chain is just too short.
 
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autolycus

autolycus

Über Member
Location
Surrey
Ok i get it now, thanks.

I'm still struggling with how long a chain i need to fit though. A wealth of experience here seems convinced that the chain is too short, but it is the 'optimum' length according to the prescribed method on the sheldon brown site. And using the Park Tool formula L = 2 (C) + (F/4 + R/4 + 1) my optimum length is 2 (17.52) + (50/4 + 36/4 + 1) = 57.54 inches. Rounded up that's 58 inches, or 116 links. I'm off to bed, maybe it will make sense in the morning.
 
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autolycus

autolycus

Über Member
Location
Surrey
Thanks, but the figure i came up with conflicts with all the sage opinions here that the chain is too short. And the picture shows an overlap that equates to one link if you include the joining link, which Sheldon Brown suggest is optimum. That's what is mystifying me. I'm trying to work out the length i need and i keep coming back to 116 links - which is what i've got :scratch:
 
Location
Loch side.
No matter what the calculations say, the chain must be long enough to just-just not bend the jockey forward by 45 degrees when in the big big combo.

If then your jockey points backwards on the Zero degree position (horizontal) when in the small-small combo, your jockey does not have enough capacity to handle the particular cassette.

You can find this 45 degree position easily without joining or cutting the chain initially. Just get an extra pair of hands and you can experimentally arrive at the right length.

Deal with the capacity issue once you've got the maximum chain length required for the job.
 

Cubist

Still wavin'
Location
Ovver 'thill
Firstly, you need to read up on the mech and ensure it can handle the gearing you are asking of it. Subtract the number of teeth on your small chainring from the number of teeth on your large chainring. Then subtract the number of teeth on your smallest cassette cog from your biggest cassette cog. Add both of these together and the figure will determine the capacity required to run a rear mech successfully. Your X7 mech looks to be a long cage, but was originally setup to run (48-34=)14 + (36-11=)25 = 39 teeth. You are now asking it to handle (50-34=) 16 + (36-11=) =42 teeth. That should still be within limits.

That leaves the chain length. All the formulae in the world will not beat direct measurement. Take a new chain and wrap it around the biggest chainring and the biggest cog, bypassing the mech. Note where the exact length touches . Then add two full links. One link is one side plate and one recessed link. . Then cut the chain with those two extra full links in place.
Without the chain on, shift the rear mech to the smallest cog and check visually that the top jockey wheel lines up with the smallest cog on the cassette. Now shift up as far as the shifter will allow and check that the jockey wheel lines up visually with the 36t cog. If it doesn't, adjust using the limit screw. You may have to adjust cable tension at this point. Check also that the top of the jockey wheel is about 8mm away from the bottom of the 36t sprocket. If it isn't, adjust this gap using the end limit or B tension screw


Thread the chain and join it with a power link. The power link should be counted as one side plate link, or a half link. Shift your gears to small small. Note the shape of the rear mech. It will be folded back on itself but still have some tension, albeit only a tiny amount. If the chain is slack and the chain fouling itself at the back of the mech, this is an early indication that the chain is too long. Don't cut it yet though.

Next, shift to big big using the shifters. As long as you have followed the adjusting and checking above, the chain will now be at full stretch. It should look very similar to your picture, albeit on the 36t, not the one below it. If it is still hanging g downwards by more than a few degrees, then the chain is too long. If it is horizontal and there is no sign of even a slight S shape to the chain running through the mech, it's too short.
Now comes the trial and error bit. What if it's bang on in big to big, but too slack in small small? You may be able to adjust the tension using the B tension screw to put a bit in and take up the slack, but you'll need to check clearance in big big again .

If it's slack in big big AND small small, remove one link and try again.

Once you're happy try all of the above in all combinations to make sure there isn't a clash in any combination. Avoid cross chaining when riding at all costs, but occasionally we get it wrong, and you need to know that if you do the mech isnt going to mangle itself in a shower of expensive components.

Basically you're at the limits using a 50 front ring with a 36 cassette. If you can't find the combination you need, try a 34 cassette or put the old 48 back on. MTBs aren't really meant to run at 50-11. That equates to well over 40mph with a half decent cadence.
 
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