Professor Regan...

[NickM]

The former is a noun, the latter a verb.

Not so.

 

[Maz]

If you're looking for something to watch tonight at 9pm:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k2lt2...

Thanks for telling us. I really enjoyed that programme. The experiment where those guys kept their hands in ice water for as long as possible was a real eye-opener!

 

[swee'pea99]

Very interesting - 8 minutes with the Nurofen, just 4 with the unbranded ibuprofen...except that the unbranded was actually Nurofen all the time.

Interesting also both that the insomniacs slept much better after taking sugar pills...but after a couple of days they'd 'stopped working'.

Funny things, brains.

 

[Arch]

Thanks for telling us. I really enjoyed that programme. The experiment where those guys kept their hands in ice water for as long as possible was a real eye-opener!

Yeah, I think it's a good show - not heavy, but not so dumbed down as many are.

The thing that interested me was that branded painkillers made it in because they work (they are, after all, just the same stuff as the non-branded), and then they also got a little extra kudos for the placebo effect. Fair enough, it obviously (on the basis of the ice test) made a difference. Homeopathy on the other hand, is often reckoned to 'work' purely on the basis of placebo, but in that case it didn't seem to be relevent... Now, I know a bit about homeopathy (mainly thanks to learning stuff on here), and I'd certainly not regard it as medicine, but it's interesting that the placebo effect of a shiny box was sort of regarded as more valid than that of the pseudoscience behind homeopathy.

Summerdays, I don't know if it was you, but I got the idea of hot blackcurrant for a cold from somewhere recently, and it worked for me - and I've told at least two others on here about it and it worked for them too!

The placebo effect is amazing. Apparently even the colour of a pill can make a difference - a soothing green or blue makes a better antidepressant placebo than a vibrant yellow. Even more amazingly, my vet colleague tells me it can even work on animals, who shouldn't know what's happening. In the case of pets, at least, it may be a proxy effect picked up from the owner feeling reassured. I did wonder, after last night's show, if it's possible to 'fool' yourself with a placebo. Next time I need a painkiller, I might try swallowing a Tic Tac instead.

 

[NickM]

...I did wonder, after last night's show, if it's possible to 'fool' yourself with a placebo...

There is that well-known passage in a Henry Miller novel where he gets drunk on water... hmmm, could save me some serious money

 

[User169]

There is that well-known passage in a Henry Miller novel where he gets drunk on water... hmmm, could save me some serious money

I've read that experiments carried out with alcohol placebos show the effects of alcohol to be heavily dependent on social expectations. Thus, the English can be fed water, but if they believe it's beer will get "drunk", i.e. loud and aggressive.

I read it in this, although I've never looked at the primary sources.

 

[summerdays]

Summerdays, I don't know if it was you, but I got the idea of hot blackcurrant for a cold from somewhere recently, and it worked for me - and I've told at least two others on here about it and it worked for them too!

Not me ... I grew up on whiskey toody's, even my tee total aunt had some in the cubboard for colds... (and she only ever had it for colds too).

 

[Arch]

Not me ... I grew up on whiskey toody's, even my tee total aunt had some in the cubboard for colds... (and she only ever had it for colds too).

oh well, maybe it was on the telly. Anyway, it works!

 

[NickM]

...the English can be fed water, but if they believe it's beer will get "drunk", i.e. loud and aggressive...

The design of that experiment seems a bit suspect to me - that's "beer" as in pissy lager, presumably? As preferred by that subset of the English who tend to be loud and aggressive regardless?

 

[theclaud]

The design of that experiment seems a bit suspect to me - that's "beer" as in pissy lager, presumably? As preferred by that subset of the English who tend to be loud and aggressive regardless?

That was kinda the point. That the English "social dis-ease" leads people to use alcohol to facilitate deliberately uninhibited behaviour. It's not actually caused by the alcohol, but they need to believe it is...

 

[NickM]

That's all terribly complicated. I don't think I could understand it if I was pissed.

Oh. Hang on a moment...

 

[Davidc]

She looked at homoeopathy and said that the medical evidence didn't back it up. That the things that it seemed to work for were those which placebo's worked for. For example she gave some insomniac's some tablets to take to see if her homoeopathic remedy worked ... they reported good sleep for the first two nights of the trial. She told them they were taking cake decorations - those silver balls.

Since the dilutions of active ingredient (sic) used in Homeopathy end up as the equivalent of around one molecule in all of the oceans of the world, it is reasonable to assume that Homeopathic pills and potions are placebos.

I read that under american consumer law they have to be advertised stating that they're placebos, but don't know if that's true.

Nonetheless, placebos are very effective and many doctors regret that in this era they aren't allowed to prescribe them. I find that I'm a little ambivalent about Homeopathy as a result since it clearly helps some people (e.g. Prince Charlie)

 

[Maz]

it's interesting that the placebo effect of a shiny box was sort of regarded as more valid than that of the pseudoscience behind homeopathy.

I noticed that, too. Only the 'clinically proven' homeopathic remedies made it 'on to her shelf', whereas the placebo effect didn't seem to be even considered.

 

[summerdays]

I too am ambivalent about Homoeopathy as my surgery strongly believes in it. I can't say any of the homoeopathic remedies have worked for me... but they believe in using various alternative medicines and some have worked better than their more normal alternative which is why I have stuck with this surgery.

 

[summerdays]

I noticed that, too. Only the 'clinically proven' homeopathic remedies made it 'on to her shelf', whereas the placebo effect didn't seem to be even considered.

Well the actual medicine was proven to work so in which case it was an enhanced effect by the placebo.