Proposed badger cull

[Dragonwight]

don't all cattle have to have a "passport" now. They have to be registered within 48 hours of birth. Tags in ears I believe. Not too hard then to note the number of the animal that has been vaccinated.

I think your right on the money with this one even if a few farmers are cheating the system that doesnt invalidate the idea and they would soon be rooted out. As for DEFRA they are not the all seeing eye so it would be interesting to know why they had discounted this obvious approach. Badger culling isnt a solution and may make matters worse anyway which im sure most farmers would dread.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I think your right on the money with this one even if a few farmers are cheating the system that doesnt invalidate the idea and they would soon be rooted out. As for DEFRA they are not the all seeing eye so it would be interesting to know why they had discounted this obvious approach. Badger culling isnt a solution and may make matters worse anyway which im sure most farmers would dread.

Becs has already destroyed that argument

 

[Dragonwight]

Becs has already destroyed that argument

Now wheres that howitzer .

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Now wheres that howitzer .

It is a shame we are so uneducated that we fail to see the complexities involved in recording numbers and dealing with some rouge farmers

 

[Dragonwight]

It is a shame we are so uneducated that we fail to see the complexities involved in recording numbers and dealing with some rouge farmers

I dont think anyone would doubt it wasnt a complex task and probably an expensive one too but not impossible and whilst vaccinating badgers is probably the most favoured solution if indeed they are even the cause which there seems to be some doubt about. One thing is certain culling them wont make this problem go away it may not even delay it. It seems to me this perceived solution isnt actually any kind of solution at all.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I dont think anyone would doubt it wasnt a complex task and probably an expensive one too but not impossible and whilst vaccinating badgers is probably the most favoured solution if indeed they are even the cause which there seems to be some doubt about. One thing is certain culling them wont make this problem go away it may not even delay it. It seems to me this perceived solution isnt actually any kind of solution at all.

So why do you think culling is the option? It's what has always been done? It appeases certain groups? Thoughts.

 

[Becs]

Now wheres that howitzer .

Sorry but after working on a dairy farm, 6 years of vet school and several years of large animal (although admittedly mainly equine) practice in the countryside I like to think I have a relatively informed opinion on the matter, although I am no expert. I'm also not pro-cull at this point, but because I question the science, not because of some blanket bunny-hugging agenda. If the culling is done humanely and there is good research to support it actually helping disease control then I would support it. However, I understand where the farmers are coming from. I also understand that it is not a simple issue of cause and effect, badgers (and possibly deer etc) can pick it up from infected cows and then spread it to more cows, who infect more badgers etc etc and the fact is (whether you like it or not) the domesticated cattle are the more valuable of the two.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Sorry but after working on a dairy farm, 6 years of vet school and several years of large animal (although admittedly mainly equine) practice in the countryside I like to think I have a relatively informed opinion on the matter, although I am no expert. I'm also not pro-cull at this point, but because I question the science, not because of some blanket bunny-hugging agenda. If the culling is done humanely and there is good research to support it actually helping disease control then I would support it. However, I understand where the farmers are coming from. I also understand that it is not a simple issue of cause and effect, badgers (and possibly deer etc) can pick it up from infected cows and then spread it to more cows, who infect more badgers etc etc and the fact is (whether you like it or not) the domesticated cattle are the more valuable of the two.

Are deer et al also going to be culled? The fact that economy is the driving force is sickening. I am ashamed to be human.

 

[dellzeqq]

I don't know what we're arguing about here. Surely killing badgers has only a temporary effect on badger numbers? You shoot the badgers, everybody goes home, has a couple of pints, and, in the mean time, the resources that were available to the badgers that are dead become available to neighbouring badgers, who, after some badger whoopee, repopulate the area of the cull.

It's a bit like shooting rabbits or deer. Those little varmints just won't stop reproducing.

Now, unless you take the view that individual badgers have sufficient about them to gain an identity, then killing badgers seems to me to be neither here nor there. If there was evidence (and Becs, who knows about this sort of thing seems to thing this is unlikely) that a particular population of badgers were all infected, then killing them would, presumably, reduce the risk to cattle in that area, albeit temporarily. Healthy badgers would step in to the breach.

Are people arguing that badgers have souls?

 

[Dragonwight]

So why do you think culling is the option? It's what has always been done? It appeases certain groups? Thoughts.

I dont know if id agree that it appeases certain groups for sure there are indviduals who would rather sadly probably enjoy a cull fortunately most farmers are more pragmatic than that they are more interested in the bottom line financially.
Id certainly agree that there is a widespread view that badgers cause the issue and therefore culling them will resolve it and that its been done before and apparently worked so whats the problem. Its an evolving situation the more research that is done the more doubt gets cast on the idea that culling ever worked it simply dispersed the problem. And its not a matter of being pro or anti culling or a bunny hugger although they can be cute its simply a matter of hard science of which alot more needs to be done before we go round blowing wildlife away in the name of disease control.

 

[Yellow Fang]

Is there no way of telling apart a cow that has TB from a cow that has been vaccinated? If that were true then why bother culling TB infected cows? Presumably TB infected cows spread the germs in their saliva, so couldn't that be tested. How do you tell if a human has TB or has just been vaccinated? It sounds more like there is no quick, easy way of telling apart a vaccinated cow from a TB infected cow. Perhaps it would be better to destroy all the cattle that show negative to the test. That would mean all the cows left would either be vaccinated or TB infected. Farmers would be pretty quick to get their cattle vaccinated then. Another possibility is retina identification for cows. Presumably cows' retinas are as unique as humans. It wouldn't take that long to develop the equipment.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Is there no way of telling apart a cow that has TB from a cow that has been vaccinated? If that were true then why bother culling TB infected cows? Presumably TB infected cows spread the germs in their saliva, so couldn't that be tested. How do you tell if a human has TB or has just been vaccinated? It sounds more like there is no quick, easy way of telling apart a vaccinated cow from a TB infected cow. Perhaps it would be better to destroy all the cattle that show negative to the test. That would mean all the cows left would either be vaccinated or TB infected. Farmers would be pretty quick to get their cattle vaccinated then. Another possibility is retina identification for cows. Presumably cows' retinas are as unique as humans. It wouldn't take that long to develop the equipment.

By all accounts farmers are faking the test results and thus negating the value of the tests.

 

[Dragonwight]

By all accounts farmers are faking the test results and thus negating the value of the tests.

Also vaccinated animals test postive same as infected ones.

 

[Yellow Fang]

The reason cattle can't be vaccinated is the bloody EU.