Q abt TDF timing

[novetan]

Assuming there are 3 grps of riders, each grp lagging behind one another, do the timing of 3rd grp riders take ref fr the leader or the 2nd grp? Eg, 2nd grp is 1 min, 3rd grp is 2 min. So the 3rd grp is 2 min or 3 min behind the leader? In F1, as I understand the diff in time take ref fr the car before you.

 

[Dogtrousers]

All times on the screen are stated relative to the front of the race. So if you want to work out the gap between group 2 and group 3 you have to start counting on your fingers ... and toes.

It's all a bit of a black art though. Here's an article https://cyclingtips.com/2012/06/how-time-gaps-are-calculated/

 

[yello]

Edit: I was wrong. I don't know what I was thinking but the TV graphics show the gap from the leader, not between the groups as I thought. I could have sworn it was otherwise. I can only think that I have, for some reason, recalled it differently responding here despite seeing it time and time over again. Funny thing is, I can even hear the commentators voice in my head saying 'and a further x minutes back'

Both, depends on context, and maybe even presenter.

As a rule, ime, when watching on French tele, the gaps - as shown on the tv graphics - are generally expressed in terms of gaps between groups. But there are instances when a presenters might say x minutes/seconds behind the lead group, or such-and-such a jersey.

Edit: the reply above has got me wondering now! I always thought the gaps shown were between groups. I'll have to take note tomorrow!

 

[Dogtrousers]

Both, depends on context, and maybe even presenter.

As a rule, ime, when watching on French tele, the gaps - as shown on the tv graphics - are generally expressed in terms of gaps between groups. But there are instances whenn a presenters might say x minutes/seconds behind the lead group, or such-and-such a jersey.

Oh. I was talking about the times I see on the letour website. Now you've made me doubt myself ... I'm trying to think what it's like on the telly

 

[cougie uk]

Its the gap from the front rider/group.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Annoyingly the TV coverage puts the leader on the left, and then group 1, then group 2 reading to the right etc. The website is the other way round. Very discombobulating

 

[yello]

I'll watch some footage on YT, that ought to resolve it for me.

 

[si_c]

All timings are from the rider at the front of the pack, so if group 2 is showing as 1:30 and group 3 as 4:55 then the second group is 3:25 ahead of group 3.

Things are made slightly more complicated at the finish line, where groups of riders all get the same time and any riders over a second behind the last rider in the group get a different time. Depending on how long the first group has taken to pass over the finish line there could be significant time gaps between groups which may not be evident just by watching the field, a rider two seconds ahead of the next on the road might get a 15 or 20 second advantage because they were in a quicker group.

 

[BurningLegs]

Seems fair to say that as a group we haven’t got a clue

 

[mjr]

Offsets on TV are generally times from the front rider, but they occasionally pop up a small box in a bottom corner showing distances from the front rider, or times or distances between groups.

TdF timings are among the most accurate but still estimated, as @Dogtrousers linked. Most ASO races (Paris-Roubaix, LBL, Vuelta) are almost as good. RCS race (Giro, Tirreno, ...) on-screen timings are often accurate but completely wrong more often than ASO races, which I think can be because they rely more heavily on telemetry from the motorcycles which doesn't work so well in the mountains.

 

[yello]

It's all a bit of a black art though. Here's an article https://cyclingtips.com/2012/06/how-time-gaps-are-calculated/

Thanks for the link. I'd never really thought about the how of it so that was informative Surprisingly low-tech!

 

[yello]

Seems fair to say that as a group we haven’t got a clue

Nah, just me getting it wrong. Everyone else was on the money.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The thing that still bugs me is what does it actually mean?

Does a lead of X mins for G1 over G2 mean:

G1 passed the point where G2 is right now X minutes ago. This doesn't take into account anything that happened in the last X minutes. G1 could have crashed or slowed to a crawl and the gap would stay the same until G2 reached the point where they crashed/slowed, whereupon it would drop down rapidly.

Or maybe I should just chill out and accept that it's a big number for a big lead, and less for a smaller lead.

 

[mjr]

The thing that still bugs me is what does it actually mean?

Does a lead of X mins for G1 over G2 mean:

G1 passed the point where G2 is right now X minutes ago. This doesn't take into account anything that happened in the last X minutes. G1 could have crashed or slowed to a crawl and the gap would stay the same until G2 reached the point where they crashed/slowed, whereupon it would drop down rapidly.

Or maybe I should just chill out and accept that it's a big number for a big lead, and less for a smaller lead.

Only the occasional on-screen counting-up timer seen at summits and other key points means "G1 passed the point where G2 is right now X minutes ago". The ones along the top of the screen seem to mean "if the finish line was where G1 is right now, we estimate G2 would finish at +whatever".

Now think about the time gaps shown on time trials

 

[yello]

Or maybe I should just chill out and accept that it's a big number for a big lead, and less for a smaller lead.

Yeh, that's about the gist of it.

I'll try to correct for terrain as well. That is, G1 is going up hill and G2 is still descending so that rapidly closing gap isn't indicative... does my head in, so I gave up.