Question about changing technique

[Slaav]

As a newbie, I had issues with Hills and there are a few threads about them.

Someone sent me off to Youtube and pointed me to some tutorials on Hills.

Apart from grading the hills so we are all talking about the same sort of issues, the common theme was to sit, relax and spin away - wiggle your fingers etc..... BUT when shattered or need a rest, skip a few gears and stand up on peddles for a good few revs. Then sit back down and spin away again. Seems to make sense to me and more importantly - WORKS!!! (Well for me anyway)

Here's an idea; TdF viewing? ANother mountain stage today I believe so see what the pros do? And they seem to do as above tbh.

Like the idea of sticking bum right back and using slightly different sets of muscles as well as once again, is kind of a rest! If going uphill can ever be described as a rest....

It won't be any consolation, but I used to only be able to spin away to get up a hill, as time goes by, I can now keep a harder gear and grind up much more easily as my leg strength has improved. It's actually quite fascinating how the strength now remains when idle but the aerobic capacity gets a cab out of town if I don't get on teh bike from one week to the next.

Hope the above nonsense makes sense and helps

 

[zigzag]

grinding up the hill will get you up quicker, will put more pressure on the knees, but less pressure on the lower back and you may be more tired in the end. spinning will be more efficient, but slower (seems contradictory), with less pressure on the knees, but more on lower back. this is from my experience, it could work differently for others.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

grinding up the hill will get you up quicker, will put more pressure on the knees, but less pressure on the lower back and you may be more tired in the end. spinning will be more efficient, but slower (seems contradictory), with less pressure on the knees, but more on lower back. this is from my experience, it could work differently for others.

This is what I was trying to get at. What is right for one may not be right for another. IIRC it was Lance Armstrong who popularised spinning, prior to him grinding was the de facto method. Experimentation is the key I think.

 

[gaz]

This is what I was trying to get at. What is right for one may not be right for another. IIRC it was Lance Armstrong who popularised spinning, prior to him grinding was the de facto method. Experimentation is the key I think.

I wouldnt say grinding was the de facto method before Armstrong. And even then his high tempo pedalling technique was noticed in tt's and not hill climbs

 

[lulubel]

Griding will burn more glycogen where as spinning will burn more fat. They just burn different energy types.

Do you have any links to more information on how this actually works in the human body? (Not disagreeing, just want to find out more because I've always just looked at overall energy use.)

 

[JustT]

Thanks all for some great comments and ideas,

What I have noticed is that:-

spinning gets me out of breath, maybee its my asthma, or my fitness, but it feels like it does when I sprint, bloody hard work. A bit of a contradiction I know, but thats how it feels, its like a sprint session for cycling lol. And as lulubel suggested I do use the easiest gear I can to maintain 80 rpm. But the easier a gear I use the harder it gets. Like the step machine at a gym, small little steps kill my legs, big long slow ones..easier.

When i grind, i breath slower, deaper, get more oxygen and can go further before I get out of breath, like lifting weights, i can go until my muscles bolt and not my lungs.

Now I do speed sessions, hit's, bricks, and hill reps to improve my speed, none of it seems to help. The length I can go on for improves, so my endurance gets better, but not the speed.

I will keep working on the spinning, as a training sesson only for now. See how it goes. What i do know is I will have to introduce it slowly. Whatever you say about muscle groups, it did affect my legs, bad. I ran my long run today and my quads hurt. Ive run after 50 odd miles up and down hills on my bike, and not felt that bad the morning after. So def felt like my muscles had been used in a whole new way. Much the way you feel after your first weight session and you inevetably do to much

Also my bike could be an issue in the equation. I thought I had a compact chainset on ( I am a total newbee on the bike tec front). Thats what the shop said. Apparently it is'nt. And my crank arm may be too long. And I am only using an 8 speed. So a different set up may help, or so Ive been told.

Good excuse for a new bike me thinks

Again thanks for the imput.....will work harder

 

[gaz]

8 speed + double + hill repeats = pain.

it isn't going to happen overnight, it will take time and effort to improve your spinning technique. But if it hurts then it will build up

 

[zexel]

Two words .... Aerobic and Anaerobic.

This is the basic difference between spinning and grinding.

Basic article here... Aerobic and Anaerobic Energy Systems

 

[lulubel]

maybee its my asthma

When i grind, i breath slower, deaper, get more oxygen and can go further before I get out of breath,

Have you always had asthma?

The reason I ask this question is because I have, and I've learnt over the years to control my breathing and keep it nice and slow and steady and deep.

It was when I started doing tempo runs, hills and intervals that I realised I needed a different breathing technique, and that easily transfers to spinning on the bike. The best way I can describe it is breathing fast and hard. If I'm working really hard, I can take a full breath - in and out - in less than a second, and process nearly as much air per breath as if I take a slow, deep breath. It's kind of like panting. Push the air out of your lungs hard, and your body will automatically start breathing in again. Give it a bit of help to get the air in quicker, and then immediately push it back out again.

It's controlled, fast breathing - the opposite of being out of breath - and, in my experience, it's the best way to get as much oxygen into your body as quickly as possible.

It is kind of hard to describe without being able to demonstrate, though, so I hope that made sense.

 

[JustT]

Thanks for that lulubel.

I have always had problems with my breathing. As a child I had a constant cough, all year all weather, especialy at night. My mother used to damp dust everything, and I couldnt have pets. As I got older i just coped better, until I got a job in a freezer...then I ended up on the inhalers.

Its got worse over the last few years, since I started running, and the docs have been experimenting with different inhalers. I have had 3 attacks in the last 6 months, all after running. I do yoga, and practice deep diaphragm breething. I try to breeth in through my mouth and nose slow and steady, and force the air out( like darth vadar sound) so that you get that help from your body you described to pull in.

Problem is my wind pipe collapses, soon as I stop exerting myself. And when I am working hard, be it run swim or bike, it makes my chest feel bruised, and a lump of phlem builds up in my throat and starts to choke me. The harder and deeper I breeth, the worse it gets. So now I am on a combo to help relax my windpipe muscles...seems to be working too.. Fingers crossed.

But spinning still gets me out of breath lol................talked to our club guru, he says as I have developed more slow twitch muscles over the last few years fell running, it would be hard to change now, and for helvellyn I should stick to what works for me. If I want to have a go at the spinning, work on it over the winter. Makes sence....I will bow to the more learned.

 

[Herzog]

Two words .... Aerobic and Anaerobic.

This is the basic difference between spinning and grinding.

Basic article here... Aerobic and Anaerobic Energy Systems

Not necessarily. Both techniques can be carried out at intensities which cause the rider to utilise either system.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Not necessarily. Both techniques can be carried out at intensities which cause the rider to utilise either system.

Anaerobic simply means"without oxygen". So yes either exercise if done strenuously enough will produce the same end result.

 

[lulubel]

I have always had problems with my breathing. As a child I had a constant cough, all year all weather, especialy at night. My mother used to damp dust everything, and I couldnt have pets. As I got older i just coped better, until I got a job in a freezer...then I ended up on the inhalers.

It sounds like someone seriously messed up when you were young, and you didn't get diagnosed, which meant it was out of control. I did have pets (and still do), but I was on relievers from about 18 months and preventers from 5 years old. I've been admitted to hospital with it about 4 times, I think, mostly in the first few years because it took a while to get it properly controlled. It's generally accepted now that uncontrolled asthma as a kid leads to long term damage to your respiratory system, and decreased lung function as an adult.

Its got worse over the last few years, since I started running, and the docs have been experimenting with different inhalers. I have had 3 attacks in the last 6 months, all after running.

It could be partly exercise induced, although that's probably only a small part of it, judging from your freezer comment. Do you suffer from hayfever symptoms? Itchy eyes/nose/mouth, sneezing, blocked nose, etc? If I don't control my hayfever with antihistamines, I find my asthma goes out of control quite quickly. I seem to be allergic to practically everything (OH says I'm allergic to life!) which means I take antihistamines all year round.

Problem is my wind pipe collapses, soon as I stop exerting myself. And when I am working hard, be it run swim or bike, it makes my chest feel bruised, and a lump of phlem builds up in my throat and starts to choke me.

I haven't come across this before, and it sounds scary.

I think carrying on as you are for now is probably very good advice, if it's working for you. Experimenting is all very well, but not when you're working towards a "deadline".

 

[JustT]

Yep, they messed up alright, bloody doc's had me trecking to this clinic every week for 'sun ray' treatment....not the foggiest what the tech term is for it, i was only 8 lol....

I do suffer from hayfeever, only just found that out, so have started on antihistamines, not sure they are strong enough though, we shall see. Eyes dont bother me much, but congestion, and sneezing, blocked nose .yes. Never thought about taking antihistamines all year, might be an idea, because comming to think of it, I have always had a blocked nose, for as long as I can remember, never had a really clear nose, exept on a very cold windy day. Even when I go to the sauna and use the steam room with ucalyptus it doesnt clear....will mention that to the doc next visit. Thanks

The throat, scary yes, feels like I am being strangled from the inside. Just shuts off and I cannot get any air in, no matter how hard I try to breeth out. ..Nurse knew just what was wrong, fantastic, as I had been telling the doc for years and he just looked at me blank haha

The working theory, one of a few... is Laryngospasm, simply (think I have this right) its when the main muscle round our vocal cords is damaged. the nerves become hypersensitive, and instead of just reacting to stop you drowning, like they are supposed to, ie, when food or water goes the wrong way down....they over react to everything. They heal in time, but stress, asthma, hayfeever can trigger a responce.

I damaged my vocal cords when I was young.....i could sing then lol...Now with the asthma, hayfeever, and me breathing in deep when exersising....it triggers a responce....I know when its bad cause I get all husky (hubby likes that bit) sometimes loosing my voice.....new meds though relax these muscles, as well as give me my steroids...so its looking good for an improvement.....

So for me Anaerobic training has always been a bit scary...me on track with inhaler at hand...not good. Hopefully, this will get better.... Aerobic....can go on, and on, and on....till my legs give in....but would kill for a little speed lol