Question re first time experience with a velomobile

[Aushiker]

G'day

I got a chance to take the one and only Sinner Mango Red Edition currently in Western Australia for a little ride this week (a big shout out to John Lewis who went to a lot of trouble to adjust it to suit me) and I had a bit of a mixed reaction to it.

It should be noted that I am not a recumbent rider so other than a very quick ride of a Catrike Villager I haven't ever ridden a recumbent period.

Given my initial reaction John suggest that I ask around to see what others initial reactions to riding a velomobile was; particularly those who like myself have had no experience with same. I am wondering I guess if others also had a mixed reaction initially and then found they grew on them.

I know that I don't have recumbent legs, that I was not smooth and accelerated to fast and that without a set of shoulder pads to suit me I was rocking around a bit. So I need to take that into consideration. Oh I also need to get a lot more flexible/loose weight. I could get in okay, but getting out was not graceful to say the least .

Hopefully I have framed this thread in a way that it make some sort of sense.

Thanks in advance.

Andrew

 

[Scoosh]

G'day

Is this a video ? If so - that is all I am getting. I've seen black squares before .....

 

[Aushiker]

Is this a video ? If so - that is all I am getting. I've seen black squares before .....

Sorry about that. I had an issue with Picasa. Now sorted.

Andrew

 

[Scoosh]

Thanks !

 

[ianrauk]

@arallsopp
He's your man for Velo's around here.

 

[riggsbie]

Looking good.....

I love my mango but Tennis Elbow has stopped me using mine right now..... :-(

 

[arallsopp]

First time in for me was a bit of a revelation. Closest thing I can think of is learning to windsurf. You spend a lot of time being very aware of the strain and the balance and the effort, and then, you get a point of reference outside of your immediate environs and realise you're moving at a fair lick. Most of the framing of a VM aims to detract from the feeling of movement (no wind noise, fewer bumps, no headwind).

For the first few months of mine (which as Ian will testify included a singlespeed effort from Brighton to London) I had a love/hate relationship with it. Without telemetry, it felt sluggish and heavy, and occasionally worryingly twitchy. I got used to it after about 500 miles (which was good, as miles 500 to 800 were done non stop) and found things improved considerably after I'd checked the alignment of the wheels (which on a RAW varies with rider weight). I'm still not 100% there, and tend to grab the brakes whenever she edges north of 55mph.

With telemetry (or a riding buddy), I can determine that keeping the thing moving through the hillier parts of Kent takes about 15% more effort than I'd normally put in, but (and here's the kicker) its at least 30% faster than I normally travel. Its a very bad idea to pace yourself using an upright in your mirror on the logic of "hey, he's still there, I must be going normal kind of speed". This is not fair to the VM, or the poor rider behind These things are not good for social rides. Unless your buddy is supremely fit (hey Ian!)

Once I'd got used to the idea that I was moving around at a faster speed than normal, arriving slightly more tired seemed to make sense. There must be a middle point where I'm travelling at the same speed as I would on an unfaired bike, and taking less effort to do it, but I haven't found it yet. VMs come into their own if you can keep them moving above 20mph, as that's where the aerodynamic advantage starts to really kick in. You still don't get that feedback from a normal bike, where you can feel the pressure mounting up as you charge into the horizon. Instead, I feel a weird buttery sensation where I'm kind of slipping through without really engaging my environs. Odd, it is. Doesn't feel like progress, but the cars I'm passing suggest otherwise.

I wasn't sure that the speed gains would be useful on a long ride, where endurance rather than timeout normally curtails my efforts. However, having tested her out on her virgin 300, I can report that she kept a very useful 16.5mph rolling average all day. I don't think I could have kept that up on any of my other bikes, particularly considering the terrain in the final 100 was about as hilly as it comes in England.

All in, its a bit of suck it and see. If you worry, you'll hear every rattle, feel every wheel lift, punish yourself for every slow start in the wrong gear. If you go with it, you'll ride, and maybe find you're getting where you were going faster, easier, and certainly in more style. I worry about everything, so it sucks to be me

 

[StuAff]

First time in for me was a bit of a revelation. Closest thing I can think of is learning to windsurf. You spend a lot of time being very aware of the strain and the balance and the effort, and then, you get a point of reference outside of your immediate environs and realise you're moving at a fair lick. Most of the framing of a VM aims to detract from the feeling of movement (no wind noise, fewer bumps, no headwind).

For the first few months of mine (which as Ian will testify included a singlespeed effort from Brighton to London) I had a love/hate relationship with it. Without telemetry, it felt sluggish and heavy, and occasionally worryingly twitchy. I got used to it after about 500 miles (which was good, as miles 500 to 800 were done non stop) and found things improved considerably after I'd checked the alignment of the wheels (which on a RAW varies with rider weight). I'm still not 100% there, and tend to grab the brakes whenever she edges north of 55mph.

With telemetry (or a riding buddy), I can determine that keeping the thing moving through the hillier parts of Kent takes about 15% more effort than I'd normally put in, but (and here's the kicker) its at least 30% faster than I normally travel. Its a very bad idea to pace yourself using an upright in your mirror on the logic of "hey, he's still there, I must be going normal kind of speed". This is not fair to the VM, or the poor rider behind These things are not good for social rides. Unless your buddy is supremely fit (hey Ian!)

Once I'd got used to the idea that I was moving around at a faster speed than normal, arriving slightly more tired seemed to make sense. There must be a middle point where I'm travelling at the same speed as I would on an unfaired bike, and taking less effort to do it, but I haven't found it yet. VMs come into their own if you can keep them moving above 20mph, as that's where the aerodynamic advantage starts to really kick in. You still don't get that feedback from a normal bike, where you can feel the pressure mounting up as you charge into the horizon. Instead, I feel a weird buttery sensation where I'm kind of slipping through without really engaging my environs. Odd, it is. Doesn't feel like progress, but the cars I'm passing suggest otherwise.

I wasn't sure that the speed gains would be useful on a long ride, where endurance rather than timeout normally curtails my efforts. However, having tested her out on her virgin 300, I can report that she kept a very useful 16.5mph rolling average all day. I don't think I could have kept that up on any of my other bikes, particularly considering the terrain in the final 100 was about as hilly as it comes in England.

All in, its a bit of suck it and see. If you worry, you'll hear every rattle, feel every wheel lift, punish yourself for every slow start in the wrong gear. If you go with it, you'll ride, and maybe find you're getting where you were going faster, easier, and certainly in more style. I worry about everything, so it sucks to be me

Good write-up. If that test ride is still going, I still want a go, not least because (I kid you not) a VM could be a very good commuter option for me if I end up having to transfer mail centres, particularly if there's travelling money to subsidise it. By 'very good', I mean 'faster door to door than the train would be'. Train would be about £1800 a year, not less than an hour door to door by the time I got to and from stations either end. It's nineteen miles or so. Travel money might well more than cover a VM
A few questions:
1. The noise: from the video you stuck on YouTube with you and Brecht riding together, it seemed really noisy inside. Was that down to the camera mic or is it really that bad?
2. Drivetrain: (this is probably more a general 'bent question)- the WAWs seem to have a reputation for not having as clean a drivetrain as Quests, Mangos and so on- how much maintenance does it need, and is cross-chaining an issue as it is with DFs?
3. The steering: Probably most confusing to a DF rider with no 'bent experience. Two handles moving forward and back- separately or together? Forward for left, back for right?

 

[arallsopp]

Good write-up. If that test ride is still going, I still want a go

Yep. No problem. Let's try to find a time that works

1. The noise: from the video you stuck on YouTube with you and Brecht riding together, it seemed really noisy inside. Was that down to the camera mic or is it really that bad?

Mostly, that's the camera mic. Yes, the body does amplify any road noise, and yes, it does create some of its own. On a reasonably smooth surface, its quiet enough to forget about. On aging chipseal, the volume goes up considerably. If you're 'head in' (with the cap and visor on) the wind noise disappears, but the surface becomes much more critical. Given the cap just rests on top of the body, its pretty easy to get it to rattle. A little bit of sealant (or 3M spray mount) will dial the noise down. Head out, you'll hear the wind and not much else. Cobbles are embarrassing, full stop.

Drivetrain: (this is probably more a general 'bent question)- the WAWs seem to have a reputation for not having as clean a drivetrain as Quests, Mangos and so on- how much maintenance does it need, and is cross-chaining an issue as it is with DFs?

Quest drive train is entirely enclosed, as far as I understand. That gives massive longevity. The WAW is less protected, with the rear derailleur being exposed within the back wheel well. Although its still within the body, you can imagine slush being thrown around in there by the rear wheel. The chain on the XL is outside the body whilst it travels under the seat which would make it more likely to pick up dirt. I've not had any maintenance issues with mine. I'm expecting the longevity is at least as good as the fully exposed bents (13,000 miles and counting) , and probably better. One of the things that attracted me to the WAW design is that the nose (and tail) come off. This makes maintenance a lot easier. I'm sure Quest riders have plenty of techniques to deal with this, but I found my mobility wasn't good enough to tune up gears from inside the shell. It also means you can fit the WAW in an estate car, which is handy.

The steering: Probably most confusing to a DF rider with no 'bent experience. Two handles moving forward and back- separately or together? Forward for left, back for right?

Two handles. When one moves away from you, the other moves towards you. Pull the right one towards you and you'll go right. Pull the left one towards you, you'll go left. Not dissimilar to handlebars on a DF, really. Its pretty intuitive once you're rolling, and I've never had to think about which way to steer it. As the bars are linked, you can steer with a single hand quite easily. (Again, just like a DF). In practice, I tend not to ride one handed, as its nice to feed the turn with both arms. Gives you twice the chance to react if you're caught off guard by the unexpected.

This kind of steering is generally called 'side-stick' or 'tank'. It uses a linkage system, but retains good feel. Again, horses for courses here. All my 'bents use under seat steering, and I'm still hobbled in my attempts to stay upright on anything with a tiller / centre stick. Something about pushing the bar left to go right throws my mind. Plenty of others get on fine, so its more than likely just me

 

[BenM]

Something about pushing the bar left to go right throws my mind.

I never thought of it before you mentioned it... if I fall off on Tuesday it will be your fault
I have a tiller on the Orca but really its just like handlebars - instead of "pushing left" I think of "pulling right"

B.