Raleigh Royal (late 1980s) rebuild - advice for beginner

[dmgraham8]

Thanks very much Gunk and Skipdiver John,

Here are some pictures (I'll send a message to the vintage forum, too, as suggested). I know it’s in a sorry state but as it belonged to my father I would like to revive it as far as poss.

I think the R500 wheel(s) are totally wrong - they were put on a few years ago, but the rear is AWOL.

Can someone suggest a good wheelset that is in keeping with this age of bike?

I suppose I will get a 7 speed cassette.. but how do I go about choosing a good (budget) option?

The rear dropout spacing is 125mm - I understand it is possible to expand to 130mm which might make life easier, but is it worth it?

Everything else I will retain, clean and lubricate for the time being and see how it rides..

Any other thoughts gratefully received.

David

 

[Gunk]

Thanks very much Gunk and Skipdiver John,

Here are some pictures (I'll send a message to the vintage forum, too, as suggested). I know it’s in a sorry state but as it belonged to my father I would like to revive it as far as poss.

I think the R500 wheel(s) are totally wrong - they were put on a few years ago, but the rear is AWOL.

Can someone suggest a good wheelset that is in keeping with this age of bike?

I suppose I will get a 7 speed cassette.. but how do I go about choosing a good (budget) option?

The rear dropout spacing is 125mm - I understand it is possible to expand to 130mm which might make life easier, but is it worth it?

Everything else I will retain, clean and lubricate for the time being and see how it rides..

Any other thoughts gratefully received.

David

You can buy an inexpensive reproduction vintage 27" wheelset off eBay, I've bought from this seller, just send a message that you want 125 mm OLD and they'll help you out.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-NEW...749592?hash=item2f2eed0a98:g:j2QAAOSwz2Bdns46

 

[DRM]

https://www.bankruptbikeparts.co.uk
https://www.spacycles.co.uk
Have a look at the above suppliers, they stock some items that are deemed "old fashioned" and will be a good place to start for spares sympathetic to the bikes age.
If the bike has a Shimano R500 wheel on, the rear may have been the same, so the frames chain stays could have been widened, known as cold setting, to allow a modern wheel to fit, as above measure the width, if its 125mm it's standard, if it's 130 mm it's been widened, however the Shimano wheels are inexpensive & good quality if it's been modified, so it's not the end of the world.

 

[Gunk]

https://www.bankruptbikeparts.co.uk
https://www.spacycles.co.uk
Have a look at the above suppliers, they stock some items that are deemed "old fashioned" and will be a good place to start for spares sympathetic to the bikes age.
If the bike has a Shimano R500 wheel on, the rear may have been the same, so the frames chain stays could have been widened, known as cold setting, to allow a modern wheel to fit, as above measure the width, if its 125mm it's standard, if it's 130 mm it's been widened, however the Shimano wheels are inexpensive & good quality if it's been modified, so it's not the end of the world.

My eBay link is the same seller, they’re very good.

 

[accountantpete]

Ideally you need to take the BB off and see if the seatpost is free.

I'd take the cranks off and turn the BB by hand to see what state it is in if you can't remove it.

The Sakae cranks were entry level - but they appear to be in good usable condition.

The rear mech is Shimano I think - again entry level.

The wheels will depend on what you want the bike to look like. Original wheels can be bought but you can hit problems with worn hubs.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

That's a nice frame, and as originally mentioned is at least a couple of years younger than my own Royal. I agree the racing wheels with not many spokes definitely don't suit a touring bike like a Royal. I believe the canti-braked version with the 531ST tubing was built with 700c wheels from new, so I would not retro-fit 27" because it's probably not correct anyway and the choice of 27" tyres is worse than for 700c.
There's several options for wheels. If you want really strong good quality ones, probably your best bet is sourcing a 36 spoke touring wheelset from someone like Spa or SJS. You could also buy a wheelset from one of the regular suppliers. The third option is you acquire a cheapo donor bike, either another tourer or a flat bar hybrid, and rob the wheels off that to put on the Royal. I picked up a £20 531 framed donor bike late last year which has decent enough 700c wheels and a six speed cluster, which I am going to use to convert my Royal to 700c. The spacing of these wheels is 126 mm, I will just spring the 120 mm spacing frame stays with my fingers during fitting.
I recently fitted a 130 mm wide 7 speed rear wheel to my Dawes 531 frame that is spaced for a 126 mm 6 speed (but actually measures just under). Again I didn't cold set the frame, I just got the wheel in position then forced the stays open a bit more as I slotted the wheel in. If you only need to go up in hub width one increment I really don't see the need or point in bothering to permanently set the frame. If you just spring it, you save a lot of messing around and don't weaken anything.

 

[dmgraham8]

Thank you very much @Gunk and @DRM and @SkipdiverJohn

I have contacted Bankrupt Bikeparts and Spa to see what they would offer in terms of wheel set and freewheel. They look great and I’ll let you know how I get on.

The current modern wheel is 700c and seems to fit well so I think it may have come with this size originally. I’ll try and source some older-looking 125mm tourer style wheels
(Skip diver John’s recommendation noted).

@accountantpete thanks for the useful info. I’ll keep the cranks and rear mech for the time being, with a view to upgrading when the bike is running again.

I have taken off the upper bits first - brakes, seat post, stem and will clean before looking at the headset and then the spikey bits down below. All the while referring to YouTube videos.

Here’s a picture of the frame sticker for your info and delight.

Many thanks,

David

 

[dmgraham8]

Hi fab forum

Slow, lazy lockdown progress on this.. but this weekend I am removing cranks.

I can get my crank tool in snugly, but it is very stiff when turning in the crank bolt - it may be weakness on my part, but feels like the crank is stuck / bolt is wrong size. Any thoughts? See photos attached. I am following a helpful RJ Bike Guy video, and have tried this on both sides to no avail.

I can send more details of bolt diameter etc if size/compatibility might be an issue.

Thank you,

David

p.s. Bankrupt Bike Parts have sent a new rear wheel and cassette - thanks for the tip.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

So the frame is 531ST throughout! Pre-1989 style stickers, so gives a rough ball park of age. Nice spec frames if they have 531 forks & stays, it's more common than not to find 531 main tubes only with off the peg frames as the maker could use the 531 as a selling point but the frame was cheaper to build than a full 531 spec one - crafty marketing!

You have to be very careful not to strip the alloy threads when using the crank extractor tools. What I do is basically this:-
1) Apply spray lube/penetrating oil into the crank arm/square taper interface and leave it to soak in for a good while. Lay the bike on its side when it's soaking, then turn it over and lay down to do the other side crank.
2) Examine the internal thread in the crank arm for alloy corrosion, scrape any away with a screwdriver. Apply some more spray lube to the threads.
3) Before using the crank extractor tool, make sure the inner bolt is backed right out as far as it will go.
4) Grease the fine external thread of the extractor tool, then screw it in by hand only at first. If it gets tight work it backwards and forwards using a spanner if necessary. Keep doing this until the tool will go all the way in until it bottoms out in the hole.
5) Screw in the central extractor bolt until it goes tight, then nip up a bit more. Keep going by very small increments and expect it to go slack when it unseats the taper.
6) If it gets really tight but doesn't release, dont force the tool. Instead, shock the crank arm on the side using a mallet or hammer. A steel hammer delivers more shock, but will mark the crank, so only do this on cheap beater bikes not nice ones!
7) If clouting it still doesn't work, drive a wedge shaped tool such as a large screwdriver blade or cold chisel between the back of the crank arm and the BB shell. Try nipping up the central extractor bolt a bit more as well.
8) If it still resists, apply heat from a hot air gun or blowtorch to the crank arm whilst keeping it under tension.
9) If none of those tricks works you are probably looking at Mr Angle Grinder next....
I have never had to do it yet, and I've removed some pretty stubborn cranks. Do not under any circumstances, risk stripping the alloy thread inside the crank arm. Use any other technique if you have to, but don't just keep winding in the centre bolt once it becomes obvious it ain't coming out that way.

 

[midlife]

The bolt you refer to doesn't go into the axle,

unscrew it so that the larger threaded part can thread into the alloy crank. Then tighten the narrow bolt through it and the crank should be pushed off the axle.

 

[dmgraham8]

Great, thank you @SkipdiverJohn that is very clear and helpful. I will have another go, this time with some lubricant first and perhaps a hammer knock. I will report back..

 

[dmgraham8]

The bolt you refer to doesn't go into the axle,

unscrew it so that the larger threaded part can thread into the alloy crank. Then tighten the narrow bolt through it and the crank should be pushed off the axle.

Gotcha - thank you!

 

[dmgraham8]

View: https://youtu.be/cPQyQnNdews


This is a good explanation

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

The Park Tool videos are very good, but they are working on clean uncorroded bikes without any previous owner butchery. Just remember that in the real world you will encounter corrosion and thread damage, especially if like me you only tinker with vintage stuff -so you need to modify your techniques accordingly.
A corroded or damaged thread may give a false impression that the extractor tool is fully screwed in when it isn't, and an already damaged thread will strip at a lower torque than a good thread, so a cautious and sympathetic touch is required not a ham-fisted one.

 

[Gunk]

I’ve never failed to get one off, but I’ve often had to support the chain wheel and hit the spindle with a punch.