Rate TdFF (aZ) '26: what did you like, what would you fix?

[Pross]

The time gaps would become ridiculous if it went to a 3 weeks (or even 2 week) race and I suspect the DNF rate would be very high. Agree with the above comment that the priority should be in getting a full season of high quality races although that is something that has also improved massively in the last few years.

One thing that really annoyed me was the constant references / comparisons to the 'men's race' even by those who were instrumental in bring about this incarnation of the TDFF. I don't think it helps anyone to compare the two, they are still worlds apart and the focus should be in developing the TDFF in its own right rather than looking to emulate a race that has over 100 years of history.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The disparity between the best and the rest is pretty big (as it is in the men's peloton) but it's decreasing. Not so long ago the Giro Rosa went up Monte Zoncolan (I think it was) and van Vleuten disappeared effortlessly up the road, no one else was remotely near, and the mass of the peloton struggled simply because it was such a huge jump from the rest of their racing. I feared that similar would happen on the Angliru this year but it didn't - it was a competitive and entertaining race.

I think what women's racing needs now is not a longer TdFF but more in the way of the medium stage races. The equivalents of the mens week long stage races are either non-existent (Paris-Nice, Tirreno) or just 3 days (Itzulia, TDU). Pushing the peloton to longer GTs without the background of those medium races would make longer GTs too much of a stretch. It would be fine for the superstars but the racing would be conservative and the rest of the peloton would struggle. Of course that's wishful thinking considering the financial pressures these races are under - see the incredible shrinking Tour de Suisse.

Thanks, autocorrect. Changing Zoncolan to Lincoln was really useful.

 

[Pross]

The disparity between the best and the rest is pretty big (as it is in the men's peloton) but it's decreasing. Not so long ago the Giro Rosa went up Monte Zoncolan (I think it was) and van Vleuten disappeared effortlessly up the road, no one else was remotely near, and the mass of the peloton struggled simply because it was such a huge jump from the rest of their racing. I feared that similar would happen on the Angliru this year but it didn't - it was a competitive and entertaining race.

I think what women's racing needs now is not a longer TdFF but more in the way of the medium stage races. The equivalents of the mens week long tours are either non-existent (Paris-Nice, Tirreno) or just 3 days (Itzulia, TDU). Pushing the peloton to longer GTs without the background of those medium races would make longer GTs too much of a stretch. It would be fine for the superstars but the racing would be conservative and the rest of the peloton would struggle. Of course that's wishful thinking considering the financial pressures these races are under - see the incredible shrinking Tour de Suisse.

Thanks, autocorrect. Changing Zoncolan to Lincoln was really useful.

To be fair, 10 years ago Michaelgate would probably have been enough to be decisive.

 

[mjr]

* Sadly, the world of social media being what it is, Celia Gery ended up getting death threats. Now, we all know that they came from overweight men who still live with their mothers, sitting posting in their pants, so not to be taken seriously but it must be pretty hard for a 20 year old in her first tour.

Team orders stitched her up. It soured a good race for me and I don't think Demi needed that sort of help from the team directors. Is it a problem that's more likely when you've a "chaingate"-era male ex-pro in the team car?

 

[M.R.M]

As far as I'm aware the team orders were only to be ahead of KNP after the corner and then let Vollering's wheel go. It got more messy on the road, but I'm not convinced Gery harbored any ill intent. I can see KNP feeling aggrieved, as it total it can certainly be perceived as dirty, but I can also see the viewpoint of others calling it "a racing incident".
KNP most likely won the TdFF a few years ago due to Vollering crashing from Wiebes taking her out and her own team not pacing her back (no fault of KNP, but also not her being the best or strongest) and she lost it this year in part due to this. That's just sport and one of the reasons it's worth competing and watching.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I thought Niewiadoma handled it rather badly. She's an experienced pro, and finger pointing and calling out other riders and confronting them while they are being interviewed is not a good look. She should have got her team management to go to the commisaires and kept quiet. Similarly I don't think Vollering handled it very well, dragging up her crash 2 years ago that had precious little to do with Niewiadoma. She could have been a bit more dignified and kept a lid on things. All in all an excessive amount of fuss but I suppose it gave us something to witter on about. And sadly it gave the internet lowlifes an excuse to threaten Gery.

 

[katiewlx]

Thanks, autocorrect. Changing Zoncolan to Lincoln was really useful.

well that Steep Hill is pretty steep in Lincoln, maybe it was AI trying to be helpful

 

[katiewlx]

To be fair, 10 years ago Michaelgate would probably have been enough to be decisive.

still is in the national cycle races they have there.

 

[katiewlx]

I thought Niewiadoma handled it rather badly. She's an experienced pro, and finger pointing and calling out other riders and confronting them while they are being interviewed is not a good look. She should have got her team management to go to the commisaires and kept quiet. Similarly I don't think Vollering handled it very well, dragging up her crash 2 years ago that had precious little to do with Niewiadoma. She could have been a bit more dignified and kept a lid on things. All in all an excessive amount of fuss but I suppose it gave us something to witter on about. And sadly it gave the internet lowlifes an excuse to threaten Gery.

it wasnt the crash Demi highlighted, it was the following "fair play" tactics Kasia, with Chloe Dygert, deployed to gain as much time from it, because Chloe admitted they knew they Demi was down and so attacked, and it ultimately proved to be crucial in the victory for Kasia, and lots of people spent ages back then claiming but it was just a unwritten rule you didnt attack the gc leader if they had crashed.

which fine, and I dont believe Demi ever has publically moaned about that, or blamed losing the race on that,or made a big thing about it, but she hasnt forgotten it and I believe the point Demi was making, if you are accusing others of bad fair play, look in the mirror first.

of course because the whole thing was a confected argument over absolutely nothing anyway, almost it seemed just to drum up interest and something the media to latch on to, so they didnt get Demis point,misrepresented it as just about the crash, and they certainly had completely all forgotten that Kasia actually has used the squeeze your rivals to the barrier tactic to make them sit up as well.

anyway theyve all made up it seems

 

[No Ta Doctor]

An eight or me - I didn't manage to see it all but did watch the last few critical stages. I enjoyed the GC race having interest right up until the end Puck is one of my favourite riders, so her getting the polkadots was great.

Sigrid "Outhouse" Haugset's Northern Danish* Viking escapade was also particularly nice.

I'm saving nine for when it eventually gets lengthened (see below)

*We hold no truck with the concept of Norway here.

You're welcome. I'm already prepared for 27: one horse race or cycling heaven?

Jonas is bringing it, prepare for a new title. You read it here first*


*Please don't quote me if it goes the way it usually does

* Sadly, the world of social media being what it is, Celia Gery ended up getting death threats. Now, we all know that they came from overweight men who still live with their mothers, sitting posting in their pants, so not to be taken seriously but it must be pretty hard for a 20 year old in her first tour.

Other than the posting death threats/abuse and the living with my mum (cremated earlier in the summer, but I've not lived at home for nearly 40 years) that's me*. Don't knock it til you've tried it.


*So just the bit about being overweight and posting in underpants really. Especially in heatwaves.

I think there should be full tv coverage, but Id be happy with it staying at 9 stages for the time being as I think this gives you a good variety of stages, & stage winners and interest in the GC battle till the end. As you look across the teams and how quite a few of them seemed to be struggling for one reason or another by the end, and I dont think the spectacle would gain from just adding in more stages at the moment.

Nine stages feels right, for now. There were six teams that won less than €1k in prize money (compared to FDJ's €77k - not a fortune) and one of them didn't win a single cent. 147 riders started, 115 finished - so we lost 32 riders in just 9 stages - that's more than the men did in 21. I think (as someone else mentioned) there need to be more week long stage races to help bring the whole peloton up and start introducing some bigger climbs more frequently. I can see it going to 14 days with a rest day in the near future, but the lower half of the peloton needs lifting first.

One caution though - I don't think the women need to emulate the men in order to have a great sport. What women's cycling needs is what works for women's cycling, there's nothing wrong with shorter stages, fewer mountains and fewer stages if that's what makes for compelling bike races. I also think the advent of the TdF Femmes has devalued other, longer standing, races - especially the Giro d'Italia Women, which has offered a long stage race with mountains since the late 80s

 

[mjr]

it wasnt the crash Demi highlighted, it was the following "fair play" tactics Kasia, with Chloe Dygert, deployed to gain as much time from it, because Chloe admitted they knew they Demi was down and so attacked, and it ultimately proved to be crucial in the victory for Kasia, and lots of people spent ages back then claiming but it was just a unwritten rule you didnt attack the gc leader if they had crashed.

I still think it is fine to attack the overall leader if they crashed because of their own team and even their own team keeps on attacking! The two races are not comparable. Kasia's team didn't try a stunt that could easily crash Demi back then. Demi's biggest problems were her own directors. https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...ens-up-about-team-tensions-tailbone-fracture/

 

[Dogtrousers]

One caution though - I don't think the women need to emulate the men in order to have a great sport. What women's cycling needs is what works for women's cycling, there's nothing wrong with shorter stages, fewer mountains and fewer stages if that's what makes for compelling bike races. I also think the advent of the TdF Femmes has devalued other, longer standing, races - especially the Giro d'Italia Women, which has offered a long stage race with mountains since the late 80s

Agree 100%. I don't know much about football but I've heard much the same argument made about women's football. The lack of history that the TdFF has is an opportunity - it's not burdened by people complaining when they deviate from the current formula. I read somewhere else someone saying "now perhaps they can get a proper Paris finale like the men". I disagree completely. Look how well the Alpe d'Huez finale worked out in 2024! What next? A velodrome finish?

Don't know about "devalued" the womens Giro, etc but I used to find it frustrating that people are so Tour de France focused that they never really valued the Giro Rosa/ Giro d'Italia Women in past. When the TdFF started there was (rightly) much celebrating, but also it was quite frustrating. "At last, a GT for the women" - FFS there has been one for ages! Admittedly it was struggling at times and even lost its WT status at one point due to lack of TV coverage didn't it?*. I think overall the TdFF razamatazz can only be good for the other tours, not devalue them.

TV coverage is another point. I understand that it's expensive to get cameras out there, and you have to be able to balance the books, but Lizzie Deignan made a very good point when talking about the (lack of) coverage of the TdFF. She pointed out that on the same day that the TdFF wasn't being fully covered, a stage of the Tour of Poland, which is a bit of a ... well ... a niche interest, had full coverage. Which makes you suspect that it's about more than just money.

* Edit, yes. In 2020 https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-rosa-surprised-to-lose-womens-worldtour-status/

 

[katiewlx]

Agree 100%. I don't know much about football but I've heard much the same argument made about women's football. The lack of history that the TdFF has is an opportunity - it's not burdened by people complaining when they deviate from the current formula. I read somewhere else someone saying "now perhaps they can get a proper Paris finale like the men". I disagree completely. Look how well the Alpe d'Huez finale worked out in 2024! What next? A velodrome finish?

Don't know about "devalued" the womens Giro, etc but I used to find it frustrating that people are so Tour de France focused that they never really valued the Giro Rosa/ Giro d'Italia Women in past. When the TdFF started there was (rightly) much celebrating, but also it was quite frustrating. "At last, a GT for the women" - FFS there has been one for ages! Admittedly it was struggling at times and even lost its WT status at one point due to lack of TV coverage didn't it?*. I think overall the TdFF razamatazz can only be good for the other tours, not devalue them.

TV coverage is another point. I understand that it's expensive to get cameras out there, and you have to be able to balance the books, but Lizzie Deignan made a very good point when talking about the (lack of) coverage of the TdFF. She pointed out that on the same day that the TdFF wasn't being fully covered, a stage of the Tour of Poland, which is a bit of a ... well ... a niche interest, had full coverage. Which makes you suspect that it's about more than just money.

* Edit, yes. In 2020 https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-rosa-surprised-to-lose-womens-worldtour-status/

the tv coverage was an excuse to drop the Giro, since the Womens Tour never lost the status on the WWT because of that aspect, but the Giros organisation at the time were terrible,, at least with RCS it feels like they know what they should be doing with it. Id like to see all 3 GTs be promoted together as much as they do on the mens side, but the Vuelta is much like the TdFF grew out of a end of mens race crit race for the women.

and comparing tv coverage across races too is tricky because we dont know what the Tour of Poland full coverage entails, how many cameras on bikes did they have, how many planes/helicopters relaying the signals they had, what kind of area, expected stage time and so on.

the TdFF obviously have a setup not quite equal to the Tdf, we never got any of those in the bunch gopro shots for instance, but they had multiple camera bikes, multiple assets flying around relaying the images,

but the extent of the coverage comes with a cost thats then related to all the assets deployed to cover it. so Im sure with the excellent viewing figures they were getting, the conversations next year will definitely be about all stages covered live, and tv companies & sponsors, pay more to get it, which puts more money into the race to keep it going and sustained.




and the double irony was the stage with the least live pictures was the most intersting tactically because the DS's couldnt rely on the tv pictures and all kinds of moves were happening, it was very old school racing