Red Light Jumping

[totallyfixed]

Sorry, not read all of this thread so if this reason not to RLJ has been used then apologies, children watching then copying?

 

[apollo179]

[QUOTE 1526516"]
If some are encouraged to jump lights because others do then that's a problem.
[/quote]

Yes thats a problem.
But is isnt a valid reason "why rljing is wrong in circumstances where it is safe" etc.
Let me explain.
You are starting off from the premise that it is wrong. It is wrong because it encourages others to do wrong.
The idea is to re evaluate it. Why is it wrong?
Start from a clean slate - not from the starting point it is wrong because it is wrong.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Yes thats a problem.
But is isnt a valid reason "why rljing is wrong in circumstances where it is safe" etc.
Let me explain.
You are starting off from the premise that it is wrong. It is wrong because it encourages others to do wrong.
The idea is to re evaluate it. Why is it wrong?
Start from a clean slate - not from the starting point it is wrong because it is wrong.

You know why it is wrong. You have had many reasons given to you. You even say that you no longer do it because it is wrong. I seriously am now calling you a :troll:

 

[roadrash]

because its illegal .....end of

 

[Dan B]

Not at all. If people like Apollo (who claimed to have no idea of Road Traffic Law) see the activity they may believe it is acceptable or even legal.

And if people who have no knowledge of nutrition see other people eating meat they may believe it is safe or even healthy

 

[wiggydiggy]

And if people who have no knowledge of nutrition see other people eating meat they may believe it is safe or even healthy

I saw 2 dogs humping on the way in this morning, I'll be dammed if I try to mount lassie on the way home later.....

 

[Angelfishsolo]

And if people who have no knowledge of nutrition see other people eating meat they may believe it is safe or even healthy

I am a vegetarian and even I would question that logic

 

[Dan B]

I am a vegetarian and even I would question that logic

Do you not believe that the public consumption of meat (e.g. in restaurants, take aways etc) legitimises the practice in some people's eyes and thus encourages them to think of eating animals as normal?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Do you not believe that the public consumption of meat (e.g. in restaurants, take aways etc) legitimises the practice in some people's eyes and thus encourages them to think of eating animals as normal?

As Veganism or vegetarianism is deemed abnormal then yes.

 

[Dan B]

Well, by the logic of "RLJing is bad because it encourages others to RLJ", eating meat where other people can see you must therefore be wrong

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Well, by the logic of "RLJing is bad because it encourages others to RLJ", eating meat where other people can see you must therefore be wrong

What an "interesting" syllogism. Lets break it down a little shall we.
RLJing is illegal.
Eating meat is not.

Encouraging people to do something illegal is not acceptable.
Encouraging people to do something legal is acceptable.

 

[Dan B]

So you agree that if RLJ were not wrong, the fact that it encourages other people to RLJ would not make it wrong?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So you agree that if RLJ were not wrong, the fact that it encourages other people to RLJ would not make it wrong?

If RLJ was legalised then I would have no issue with people encouraging others to do it.

 

[totallyfixed]

Apologies for butting in earlier, just realised this is a private debate

 

[Dan B]

If RLJ was legalised then I would have no issue with people encouraging others to do it.

Well, there we are then. When you say "it's wrong because it encourages copycat behaviour", it turns out that the copycat behaviour is only a problem because you've already decided that it's wrong for other reasons.


I would happily concede that we all need to think about the example we set when we indulge in potentially dangerous behaviours that others might copy - but these behaviours might also include filtering, or riding fast, or riding on busy roads, or riding without hi-viz, or even riding bikes at all. Or crossing the road. The only reason you have for singling RLJ out from these others is that you have already decided it is (in general) wrong and they are (in general) not, but you can't use "it encourages copycats" as a reason for it being wrong, because that's simply circular reasoning. Stick with the good reasons (which so far imo are that it reduces your predictability on the road because you're not following the conventions for road use enshrined in law) and consider the copycat issue as merely an intensifying factor