Red lights/queuing

[summerdays]

User3143 - I agree with snorri - whether you choose to RLJ and filter on the left as you are an extra vigilant cyclist apparently, its upto you. But it is wrong to encourage someone else to do it, especially someone asking for advice.

And to gratts I suggest if you haven't got it already that a copy of Cyclecraft - its has lots of advice on how to approach different road layouts and dangers to watch out for.

 

[ComedyPilot]

Scenario. On a bike, deserted country road junction, early morning, dark and the lights are at red. No other vehicles around. Lights on priority road go from green to red, then back to green. The lights you are held by do not change. Cars now come and go along the main road, but still you are held at red. How long do you wait like this? Is it any wonder some cyclists RLJ when faced with lights that only change if a car/bus/truck sit there?

 

[summerdays]

In that scenario you either cycle through when you can see the lights on the other road are on red - then go home and report it, or get off and walk past the traffic lights. There was one set on one of my routes that only changed for buses - luckily someone pointed out that I could legally cycle on the pedestrian area near by and skip 2 sets of lights.

 

[Greenbank]

Scenario. On a bike, deserted country road junction, early morning, dark and the lights are at red. No other vehicles around. Lights on priority road go from green to red, then back to green. The lights you are held by do not change. Cars now come and go along the main road, but still you are held at red. How long do you wait like this? Is it any wonder some cyclists RLJ when faced with lights that only change if a car/bus/truck sit there?

What would you do if you were in a car and the same thing happened?

 

[ComedyPilot]

What would you do if you were in a car and the same thing happened?

Bit of a no-brainer.

I specifically stated a cycle is at the lights, NOT a car!!!

Please read posts before replying (saves smart-arsed replies)

The problem doesn't happen in a car because the lights in question change for cars/bigger vehicles! (as already stated). Believe me, I live 100 metres from them and have studied their sequences. The main road stays at green until a vehicle approaches/stops at the lights from the side road. Somehow this is detected and it changes the lights so the side road is serviced, and the vehicles from that direction get the 'green light'.

This is not a case of lights malfunctioning and never going green, which would require a 'pass with care' approach and maintenance to get the lights working, this is the normal running of the lights, and cycles do not get the green light from the side road until another (bigger) vehicle trips the lights.

 

[snorri]

Please read posts before replying (saves smart-arsed replies)

From someone who has just added to a thread with a posting completely off topic, that was a rather rude response.
You described a "scenario", which gave the impression of a made up scene, not a real life situation.
The situation you describe is quite clearly a malfunction, the vehicle sensors should "see" bicycles as well as motor vehicles. You should report this defect to the roads and transport department of your Local Authority, or if the junction is on a trunk road, then report it to the Trunk Roads Authority for your area.

 

[ComedyPilot]

From someone who has just added to a thread with a posting completely off topic, that was a rather rude response.


Obviously you should report this defect to the roads and transport department of your Local Authority, or if the junction is on a trunk road, then report it to the Trunk Roads Authority for your area.

How can the post I added (about waiting on a cycle at a red light) be 'completely off-topic' in a thread entitled 'Red Lights/queuing' ?

Please read posts before replying (saves smart-arsed replies)

A scenario is a synthetic description of an event or series of actions and events.

Sorry if my use of the word confused what I meant

It is NOT a defect:

'This is not a case of lights malfunctioning and never going green, which would require a 'pass with care' approach and maintenance to get the lights working, this is the normal running of the lights....'

Please read posts before replying (saves smart-arsed replies)

I have however contacted highways, who (surprise, surprise) stated this is NOT the case and cycles will be detected. Not wanting to waste more of my time arguing with someone who doesn't try to negotiate the junction at 06:30 on a cold, dark, wet, autumn morning only to be sat watching the lights on red, I now simply become a pedestrian for 3 metres, get through the lights and set off into the main road traffic (having turned left) and resume my journey.

 

[ComedyPilot]

What would you do if you were in a car and the same thing happened?

What has being in a car got to do with a thread about cycles and red lights?

From someone who has just added to a thread with a posting completely off topic, that was a rather rude response.

Did you mean me or Greenbank?

 

[ComedyPilot]

Please read posts before replying (saves smart-arsed replies)

...........that was a rather rude response.

I said please, and offered helpful, protective words of advice.....didn't seem rude to me?

Personally, I am offended by your use of the smilie and i think it's use in this context implies subliminal aggression, a few steps further up the anger scale compared to rudeness.

But, I apologise profusely to ANYONE offended by my words and actions. I also apologise for going off-topic when writing about a cycle at red lights in a thread about red lights on a cycling forum.

Can this thread now return to the scenario()/subject in hand, lynching the tossers in the highway department that have installed traffic lights at my road end which will not function for me unless I have a four-wheeled chaperone.

 

[Fab Foodie]

gratts
It's a good question and everybody as you can see has a slightly different approach, however there are some commonalities. I strongly suggest you read Cyclecraft by Franklin (HMSO Books). It really is the cyclist bible on keeping alive on the road.

Before this thread descends into a bollox-fest I'll give my 2 pennorth worth...

In general, good road positiong and awareness of danger zones shouldkeep you out of trouble. I tend to find a suitable gap in the cars and sit myself in the middle of the road. Otherwise I'll just join the back of the queue and again sit in the centre of the lane.
I rarely filter through to the ASL unless there is a very clear cycle lane/bus to feed me there and I am certain I can make the ASL before the lights change. I'd almost never filter if there is a LH turn, a bus or an HGV in the line. Better to be behind a bus than under one.
My belief is that a bicycle is a legitimate road vehicle and has as much right to the road as any other. I also believe that we should obey the same rules. But then I'm old and only have 25 years of road-riding experience to draw on...

 

[Dayvo]

The situation you describe is quite clearly a malfunction, the vehicle sensors should "see" bicycles as well as motor vehicles. You should report this defect to the roads and transport department of your Local Authority, or if the junction is on a trunk road, then report it to the Trunk Roads Authority for your area.

Ah, but the traffic lights here are of the same kind that Comedy Pilot mentioned in his 'totally fictitious' scenario!

A cyclist doesn't trigger the 'whatever it is' and only when a larger vehicle comes along, do the lights change; by that time, though, I'm long gone. It's early in the morning with little/no traffic, so I'm not putting myself or anyone else in danger.

But as a rule, I don't RLJ in traffic; only when there is NO traffic!

 

[Greenbank]

From someone who has just added to a thread with a posting completely off topic, that was a rather rude response.
You described a "scenario", which gave the impression of a made up scene, not a real life situation.
The situation you describe is quite clearly a malfunction, the vehicle sensors should "see" bicycles as well as motor vehicles. You should report this defect to the roads and transport department of your Local Authority, or if the junction is on a trunk road, then report it to the Trunk Roads Authority for your area.

This was the basis of the point I was making.

And I'm a little thicker skinned than others so ComedyPilot please feel free to call me a smart-arse if you think it helps.

 

[ComedyPilot]

........so ComedyPilot please feel free to call me a smart-arse if you think it helps.

I was purely offering advice, at no time did I call you a smart-arse, please re-read post (again, groan).

I SIMPLY stated that you should read the post before replying. Unfortunately some people on this forum would jump at the chance to rip into someone (esp Noobs) just to start an argument (aka smart-arsed replies). Then someone esle will inevitably stick their oar in and it spirals into a right old bun-fight.

The point you made, was 'What would I do in the same situation in a car?'

Call me thick, but what link/basis is there in that to Snorri writing about a malfunctioning set of lights?

As already stated (again, missed if NOT read) I said sorry for any offence caused by my words or actions. I cannot be sorry though, if people chose NOT to read the posts properly, then accuse me of something I clearly HAVE NOT DONE.

 

[Greenbank]

OK, to answer your question: I would expect you to stop until you were aware that the lights were indeed not going to change to green for you. I would then expect you to proceed through the red light with care.

However, if it were me, and I encountered this every day on my commute then I'd write to the local council to say that they need to consider replacing the in-road "loop" detector with a movement detector which would be triggered by cyclists, or even just changing the phasing of the lights so that this road always gets a green light at one point in the sequence.

Personally I do see lights that only detect motor vehicles as malfunctioning. If you don't then you're passively accepting that bicycles are some kind of lower class to motor vehicles. They're traffic lights and we are traffic.

I'd also consider dismounting and pushing my bike through the lights (but then I choose never to *ride* through a red light).

I asked my question because I thought it would make these points by eliciting the same response as yours. I'd expect someone in a car to do the same thing (i.e. stop, wait for at least an entire sequence of phases to pass until you're convinced that the lights aren't going to go green for you, then proceed through with caution).

 

[jimboalee]

You don't want to going across a pelican crossing when its on red..... You might knock down Frodo wearing his ring.