Reduce speed limits to 30mph - petition

[Alex321]

On an A road, an average speed camera would be pretty pointless. To average the current 60 speed limit you'd have to be pretty much flat out whenever you could.
Back in my foolish youth I could just about average 50 through mid Wales but only by driving like an utter bell end

That depends on the A road.

On many of the ones in Wales, you would be right. On many outside Wales, and a few within, you could quite easily maintain 60+ if there was no other traffic. Most of the A49 for instance - it is so busy you are normally behind something going slower, but catch it with no other traffic, and it is only through the villages and towns that your speed needs to drop below 60. A lot of the A48 (after excluding dual carriageway section) can also comfortably be driven at 60+.

But large parts of many other A roads in Wales, you just can't safely drive at that sort of speed.

 

[Profpointy]

I think you underestimate how dangerously fast some drivers go! The average speed cameras on the 60mph A17 west of King's Lynn are thought to be responsible for the casualty reduction on that stretch. Meanwhile, anti-camera Lincolnshire just keep updating the death count signs on their bit of the A17...

Possible right on roads like the A9 in Scotland which has less traffic at night and you could indeed do a hell of a speed if there was no enforcement. I was thinking more of twisty A roads where even if you did 90 or a 100 on the straights you'd be struggling to average much over 50 over any distance

 

[mjr]

Possible right on roads like the A9 in Scotland which has less traffic at night and you could indeed do a hell of a speed if there was no enforcement. I was thinking more of twisty A roads where even if you did 90 or a 100 on the straights you'd be struggling to average much over 50 over any distance

Yes, the A17 across the fens is not twisty, being part on former railways. There also isn't the Darwinian traffic calming of older fen roads, where long straights end in sharp bends with watery drainage ditches on the outsides.

 

[lazybloke]

On an A road, an average speed camera would be pretty pointless. To average the current 60 speed limit you'd have to be pretty much flat out whenever you could.
Back in my foolish youth I could just about average 50 through mid Wales but only by driving like an utter bell end

Even a "slow" car can easily average over 60 mph over a short distance of A road.
These average speed cameras work over distances as little as a few hundred metres; we're not talking about average journey speed.

 

[Profpointy]

Even a "slow" car can easily average over 60 mph over a short distance of A road.
These average speed cameras work over distances as little as a few hundred metres; we're not talking about average journey speed.

That does make sense, good point!

 

[katiewlx]

but the A12 does have an average speed camera in the Dedham Vale, its set to 70mph, which is the max speed limit right, they still have about 700 prosecutions per year, so like 2 people per day every day cant work it out.

 

[mjr]

but the A12 does have an average speed camera in the Dedham Vale, its set to 70mph, which is the max speed limit right, they still have about 700 prosecutions per year, so like 2 people per day every day cant work it out.

The Haywain only has a short lunch break?

 

[C R]

Signed. It would be good to see a debate about this, particularly relating to those (often twisty rural) roads where the current national speed limit applies. I can't help thinking the reduction in emissions, fuel costs (esp. with the recent price hikes) and costs associated with casualties would outweigh any costs associated with slightly longer journey times...

I find it mistifying that rural lanes are by default 60, even if they are narrow single track with passing places and hemmed in between hedges. There should be an additional rule that for the 60 speed limit to apply the road should have two painted lanes.

 

[Happy_Days]

I find it mistifying that rural lanes are by default 60

Highway Code rules 125 and 126 always apply. Consequently, you must drive at a speed that allows you to stop in the distance you can see to be clear—allowing twice as much stopping distance for single track roads.

In practice, the Highway Code rules on stopping distance require a lower speed than 60 mph for most single track roads. Thus, there’s no need to change the national speed limit.

It would help if the DVSA syllabus mentioned Limit Point Analysis, as it’s a straightforward way to judge the safe cornering speed on rural roads.

 

[C R]

Highway Code rules 125 and 126 always apply. Consequently, you must drive at a speed that allows you to stop in the distance you can see to be clear—allowing twice as much stopping distance for single track roads.

In practice, the Highway Code rules on stopping distance require a lower speed than 60 mph for most single track roads. Thus, there’s no need to change the national speed limit.

That's the other thing that is silly. What is considered safe for the conditions is subjective. Any boy racer will be confident of their rally like skill and be sure that their driving at 60 in a single track without visibility is perfectly fine. Because there's a case to argue if they get stopped (due to the law not being black and white in that case) said boy racer can go to court and get lucky and get away with it.

 

[Happy_Days]

The Highway Code’s stopping distances aren’t subjective, as the code gives them in metres. It explicitly doubles them in wet conditions, and outlines the 2-second rule.

However, I never cease to be disappointed by the number of my friends who believe they can brake in a shorter distance. Why would you want to give yourself less stopping distance?

I want to give myself plenty of stopping distance, and I’m a race school graduate with a fair bit of circuit driving experience.

 

[Profpointy]

The Highway Code’s stopping distances aren’t subjective, as the code gives them in metres. It explicitly doubles them in wet conditions, and outlines the 2-second rule.

However, I never cease to be disappointed by the number of my friends who believe they can brake in a shorter distance. Why would you want to give yourself less stopping distance?

I want to give myself plenty of stopping distance, and I’m a race school graduate with a fair bit of circuit driving experience.

People often claim brakes and / or tyres are better, conveniently ignoring the fact that reflexes have not improved, neither has the ability to see round blind bends.

Someone told me that if you pass the back of a stationary bus at 30mph at the same instant someone walks out from the front, you'll hit them before you've even touched the brakes. I didn't believe this ... until I did a quick fag packet calculation which confirmed it. Two cars each doing 30 need two buses of reaction time as well as however far it takes to stop

 

[Bristolian]

I find it mistifying that rural lanes are by default 60, even if they are narrow single track with passing places and hemmed in between hedges. There should be an additional rule that for the 60 speed limit to apply the road should have two painted lanes.

You have to take into account that the national speed limit for single carriageway roads was set way back in the 1974 when drivers were expected (and generally did) use common sense when deciding how fast to drive, bearing safety in mind.

To apply a lower limit to narrow country lanes would require a significant investment in speed limit signage. Consider, two signs at the entry to either end of each lane (one on either side of the road) and pairs of repeater signs along the lanes' length each sign costing a couple of hundred quid, plus installation and routine maintenance to keep them visible or replace them if they get damaged.

Most of my cycling is done on narrow country lanes and I can't remember the last time I saw a car being driven so fast I thought it excessive. I have no idea what the collision statistics are for those roads but I suspect it's also not excessive. A bigger problem, in my experience, are drivers that can't reverse.

 

[albion]

I have noticed a few times coming out of a very twisty road section, it is often only the safe straight section that gets the reduced speed limit, it being differently classed as 'populated'.