Reduce speed limits to 30mph - petition

[Dogtrousers]

Not if the legislation is updated to change the national speed limit for such minor roads, it won't.

At present national speed limits are: M-way & dual carriageway 70; Single carriageway 60; Built up areas with streetlights 30.

So what is being proposed is (I think) is adding an extra clause to that: Minor single carriageway: 30.

That could work but it would need a simple, watertight definition of minor single carriageway that doesn't have any/many exceptions.

It would seem that "less than 5.5 m in width" would be the ideal one because the government traffic signs manual (2.2.6) recommends not painting centre lines on these roads, and it does recommend them on wider ones (table 2-1). So an alternative way of stating this would be equivalent to saying "single carriageway with no centre line marking", provided that the traffic signs manual is universally applied.

It would still require a major publicity/education campaign and possibly also explicit signs in some cases so it still wouldn't be cheap. Would it be beneficial? Maybe, but I'm not convinced.

At least I now have an idea what it's all about. Something that the wording of the petition doesn't give.

 

[katiewlx]

I find it mistifying that rural lanes are by default 60, even if they are narrow single track with passing places and hemmed in between hedges. There should be an additional rule that for the 60 speed limit to apply the road should have two painted lanes.

well its not really, the point is always the speed limit is the limit not the target, you should only ever be driving at a speed within which you can safely stop within the distance you can see clear, so that may well mean there are roads where the limit is 60mph, but actually you should only be doing 30mph.

the reason we dont set those roads as a 30mph limit is because we used to assume people took responsibility for their own actions and knew what an appropriate speed to drive safely at was, instead of littering the countryside with umpteen speed limit signs because thats in many ways taking the responsibility away from the driver (see also hiviz and daytime lights) to drive at a safe speed, and until theres a day where speed can be automatically monitored, drivers will break speed limits anyway if they recognise theres no fear of prosecution.

there are residential roads near me that are 30mph limit, cars parked both sides of the road, which make it effectively a single track road in an urban setting. But its not safe to drive down it at 30mph, because there could be kids stepping out behind parked cars, peoples pets etc etc, just because its 30mph doesnt mean its any safer, the responsibility to drive safely along it, still firmly rests with the driver.

 

[mjr]

So an alternative way of stating this would be equivalent to saying "single carriageway with no centre line marking", provided that the traffic signs manual is universally applied.

🤣🤣🤣 Nice dream!

It'd be better to say " carriageway with no centre line marking ".

 

[C R]

well its not really, the point is always the speed limit is the limit not the target, you should only ever be driving at a speed within which you can safely stop within the distance you can see clear, so that may well mean there are roads where the limit is 60mph, but actually you should only be doing 30mph.

the reason we dont set those roads as a 30mph limit is because we used to assume people took responsibility for their own actions and knew what an appropriate speed to drive safely at was, instead of littering the countryside with umpteen speed limit signs because thats in many ways taking the responsibility away from the driver (see also hiviz and daytime lights) to drive at a safe speed, and until theres a day where speed can be automatically monitored, drivers will break speed limits anyway if they recognise theres no fear of prosecution.

there are residential roads near me that are 30mph limit, cars parked both sides of the road, which make it effectively a single track road in an urban setting. But its not safe to drive down it at 30mph, because there could be kids stepping out behind parked cars, peoples pets etc etc, just because its 30mph doesnt mean its any safer, the responsibility to drive safely along it, still firmly rests with the driver.

The problem is the making progress mantra that people get drilled into them when learning to drive. Our daughter got a minor fault in her test just last month because she was driving at 20 in a 30 road with cars parked on both sides. I know the road, I don't think it is ever safe to drive at 30 in that road, but if people are being told by the examiner that they should aim for the speed limit ...

 

[mjr]

The problem is the making progress mantra that people get drilled into them when learning to drive. Our daughter got a minor fault in her test just last month because she was driving at 20 in a 30 road with cars parked on both sides. I know the road, I don't think it is ever safe to drive at 30 in that road, but if people are being told by the examiner that they should aim for the speed limit ...

They get told by the instructors. The examiner tells them very little.

When I drove cautiously past a school in a 30 limit, I failed my test. When I exceeded the limit on the following test, I passed with a minor fault note. It's sick.

 

[C R]

They get told by the instructors. The examiner tells them very little.

When I drove cautiously past a school in a 30 limit, I failed my test. When I exceeded the limit on the following test, I passed with a minor fault note. It's sick.

The examiner actually complained to my daughter for driving slowly in that road.

 

[DRM]

The examiner actually complained to my daughter for driving slowly in that road.

My daughter had the same, slowed to 30, it's a 40 limit, on a rural road, with a bridge over the M1 that's just wide enough for 2 vehicles to pass each other, straight on to a double bend then past a golf course, the exit of which is blind to on coming traffic from the left, I said I'd love to take that examiner down that road at 40 mph without slowing, including the bends, the bloke was a t*sser, i'm sure they just fail a certain percentage for no good reason

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Speed limits don’t matter to those who disregard the law.

A bit of an aside that those flashy speed warning signs are often in places that are a complete waste of time as the only drivers going above the 30 limit are complete hooligans who would use the signs as a challenge "how high a number can I get".

Village I live in got some a few years back (and they are not cheap for small villages even after all the grants) yet most vehicles on the road can't take corner coming into the village above 20 mph. Only people breaking the limits will be ignoring or worse from the signs.

That said, there are a few locations where they can serve a purpose eg long straight 60 road running through residential with houses well back from road the flashing can remind a driver who was not paying proper attention to the road signs. But many are waste of money.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Speed limits don’t matter to those who disregard the law.

Except that with sat navs updated to new limits; they would not route non local drivers down the narrow lanes unless their destination was down there. Keep them on the A and B roads.

 

[mjr]

A bit of an aside that those flashy speed warning signs are often in places that are a complete waste of time as the only drivers going above the 30 limit are complete hooligans who would use the signs as a challenge "how high a number can I get".

They're not a complete waste of money, as they record vehicle speeds, which the village council should then use as evidence to push the highways authority and/or police into action.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

They're not a complete waste of money, as they record vehicle speeds, which the village council should then use as evidence to push the highways authority and/or police into action.

Apparently the stats say they do have an effect

possibly a "everyone can see I am speeding" type thing or something

or just a reminder that that speed is over the limit

dunno - but apparently it works in the right place

 

[Alex321]

The Highway Code’s stopping distances aren’t subjective, as the code gives them in metres. It explicitly doubles them in wet conditions, and outlines the 2-second rule.

They aren't subjective, but they also aren't very useful.

First, they haven't been updated since the days when cars had drum brakes and tyres not much wider than a modern bike tyre.

Almost all modern cars will stop in a shorter distance, but the distance a car takes to stop varies by a surprising amount between models.

Obviously, the thinking/reaction time element hasn't changed, and at lower speeds, that is more than the actual braking time. And the majority of drivers, in a modern car, will stop in less distance than it suggests.

The two second rule is still very much a good one though, because that is almost all about thinking time.

However, I never cease to be disappointed by the number of my friends who believe they can brake in a shorter distance. Why would you want to give yourself less stopping distance?

Most people believe they are giving enough, and want to be as far up the road as they can be within that.

Obviously, not all are right about giving enough space, or you wouldn't get so many rear end shunts.

I want to give myself plenty of stopping distance, and I’m a race school graduate with a fair bit of circuit driving experience.

In which case, you should be aware of just how much braking distance can vary between cars.

 

[Alex321]

Not if the legislation is updated to change the national speed limit for such minor roads, it won't.

Yes it would.

There is no reasonable metric which can be used which would be properly understood by drivers, that would determine what the limit for any given road was.

And even now, while the default limit for roads with street lights is 30 (20 in Wales), you never enter such a limit without signs telling you it is 30.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

... which the village council should then use as evidence to push the highways authority and/or police into action.

A number of villages round where I live have been pushing Highways to change the speed limit in the village to 20. They have support of town and county Councillors but after quite a few years got nowhere as Highways just say "No". None of the villages would ever get a Police speed check machine/person as not enough traffic.

One village where I suspect the signs are going to have better impact (straight road through village with housing well back from road and 60 outside village and a busier road) does frequently have speed camera person attending. No idea if people "spread the word" (social media?) but when I see them they are gone an hour later.