Robotic Cars

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jonesy

Guru
Chrisz said:
...Also, I have never hit anyone (in a car) but have been the victim (as a child) when not looking whilst crossing the road.

Children make mistakes. That's how children behave and is why they aren't given the usual responsibilities of an adult. The possibility of a child running into a road is usually a forseeable hazard that drivers should be aware of and prepared for (certainly on residential streets, near shops etc). The idea that children should be expected to take full responsibility for protecting themselves from machinery operated by adults would not be accepted in any other situation, so I fail to see why it should be considered the norm for the roads.
 

Chrisz

Über Member
Location
Sittingbourne
You are still missing the point I am trying to make.

I disagree with excessive speed or speeding in the wrong environment entirely!

However, I also disagree very strongly with the whole idea/ethos that the state should take control of our lives. The more control they have the less choices we have - one step leads to another.

Obviously I know that careless drivers cost lives and if someone hit my kit through carelessnes I would hunt them down and do serious damage.

The very point I have been trying (unsuccessfully) is that as the state takes more and more control over our lives we are left with less and less choices. As soon as one threat/danger is removed they will start to target the next - what's next?
 

snorri

Legendary Member
Chrisz said:
If I have given an employee all the correct training and safety procedures/equipment etc they Yes, it is their fault if they chose to ignore instructions and injure themselves - I have taken every practicable measure.

A good employer will be aware of the physical and mental abilities and disabilities of his employees and will operate his business accordingly. As drivers we have no control or knowledge of the abilities of the people we interact with in public, so must be required to safeguard others, particularly when we are in control of potentially dangerous machinery.
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Chrisz, the problem with your point of view and speeding is that this is somewhere the state *needs* to take control. Speeding is dangerous and anti-social, it's hated hated behaviour, so it's exactly the kind of thing selfish twunts shouldn't be allowed to do.
 

Rhythm Thief

Legendary Member
Location
Ross on Wye
BentMikey said:
Chrisz, the problem with your point of view and speeding is that this is somewhere the state *needs* to take control. Speeding is dangerous and anti-social, it's hated hated behaviour, so it's exactly the kind of thing selfish twunts shouldn't be allowed to do.

I agree with this (as I suspect Chris does too), but I'd question whether a good way to prevent people speeding is to introduce more state control in our lives. I'd sooner see people educated as to why being selfish is a Bad Thing, and made to take pride in driving well and behaving like decent human beings again; the introduction of compulsory limiters will simply foster resentment among drivers (and civil liberties campaigners) and may well lead to yet more people feeling that they can remove their brains before driving anywhere. I'm not sure limiters are a great way to increase road safety, even if they would lead to more people being unable to speed. None of which, for the more hysterical among us, is to say that I want to drive everywhere 20 mph above the speed limit.
 

tyred

Squire
Location
Ireland
I don't believe this is an issue with cars or drivers but with society as a whole. We seem to live in a world where many people never consider others. Therefore they drive as as if they own the road. They complain if someone drives slower than they do, and will probably overtake in the most stupid place possible because they feel they are being held up. In reality, to wait until it would be safe to overtake might add two minutes to their journey. What do they do with the two minutes they save?

On Christmas eve, going home from work, I stopped my car at a Zebra crossing as there was an old lady crossing the road. About two seconds after I stopped, a Max Power type little boy racer drove straight into the back of my car, causing a fair amount of damage. Did he apologise? Nope. He tried to give me a load of abuse about why I had stopped, he was in a hurry, he hadn't time to wait, shouldn't have stopped my car in the middle of the street, blah, blah. He had clearly been drinking and was very abusive towards me. I phoned the police, who refused to come to the scene, saying it wasn't a police matter. I would like to think if I drove into someone's car, I would actually apologise. He was just incredibly arrogant but sadly there are lots of people like him on the road, and with that attitude and no respect for other people and their propery, is it a wonder there are so many accidents?
 

Chrisz

Über Member
Location
Sittingbourne
BentMikey said:
Yes, I'm not sure that more speed cameras and more traffic police wouldn't have a better effect on road safety.

Speed cameras only have an effect in the immediate vicinity, not to mention the fact that they pick up on one thing only - speed - and have no control over drunken, drugged, erratic, dangerous driving.

More police on the roads is something I would love to see :tongue:
 

Chrisz

Über Member
Location
Sittingbourne
tyred said:
I don't believe this is an issue with cars or drivers but with society as a whole. We seem to live in a world where many people never consider others. Therefore they drive as as if they own the road. They complain if someone drives slower than they do, and will probably overtake in the most stupid place possible because they feel they are being held up. In reality, to wait until it would be safe to overtake might add two minutes to their journey. What do they do with the two minutes they save?

On Christmas eve, going home from work, I stopped my car at a Zebra crossing as there was an old lady crossing the road. About two seconds after I stopped, a Max Power type little boy racer drove straight into the back of my car, causing a fair amount of damage. Did he apologise? Nope. He tried to give me a load of abuse about why I had stopped, he was in a hurry, he hadn't time to wait, shouldn't have stopped my car in the middle of the street, blah, blah. He had clearly been drinking and was very abusive towards me. I phoned the police, who refused to come to the scene, saying it wasn't a police matter. I would like to think if I drove into someone's car, I would actually apologise. He was just incredibly arrogant but sadly there are lots of people like him on the road, and with that attitude and no respect for other people and their propery, is it a wonder there are so many accidents?

All part of our blame culture perhaps - things (for the younger generation) are never their fault.
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Chrisz said:
Speed cameras only have an effect in the immediate vicinity, not to mention the fact that they pick up on one thing only - speed - and have no control over drunken, drugged, erratic, dangerous driving.

More police on the roads is something I would love to see :tongue:

Just because speed cameras only catch speeders doesn't highlight a flaw, and is not an argument against speed cameras. Catching speeders is *exactly* what we want them to do.

Speed cameras here in the UK only work in the vicinity because some idiot painted them hiviz, instead of making them steathly and mobile as you have on the continent. That is, unless you include average speed cameras, which work throughout their usually large sphere of influence.

Again, you sound like a safespeed troll.
 
I don't believe this is an issue with cars or drivers but with society as a whole. We seem to live in a world where many people never consider others.

No I think that just applies to places like London.
 

Rhythm Thief

Legendary Member
Location
Ross on Wye
BentMikey said:
Yes, I'm not sure that more speed cameras and more traffic police wouldn't have a better effect on road safety.

Who mentioned speed cameras? I thought we were talking about speed limiters. For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with speed cameras as I simply drive at or under the speed limit, and I certainly don't have a problem with more dedicated traffic police. Especially if they catch the twunts who cut in front of my truck 100 yards before their motorway exit, or the people who drive down residential roads (with no cameras) at 50mph.
 

tyred

Squire
Location
Ireland
hackbike 666 said:
I don't believe this is an issue with cars or drivers but with society as a whole. We seem to live in a world where many people never consider others.

No I think that just applies to places like London.

I don't live in London but see plenty of evidence of it around here.
 
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