roudabouts......oh dear!

[spacecat]

My son commuting home this evening had an incident. Your thoughts on this and the law would be greatly appreciated.

Approaching a two lane roundabout with three exits he signalled right to take the third exit and took the inside lane of the roundabout. When past the second exit he looked over his shoulder, signalled left to leave the roundabout. As he was exiting, a car which had entered from his first possible exit and intended to leave on the same exit as him tried to undertake? Him before the exit.

The car nudged him, at which point they both stopped. He uttered expletives along the lines of what are you doing! The driver then started to move forward,nudged his left leg and he jumped off his bike. He was then standing in front of the car with the bike lying on the ground.

The driver then started moving forward again with the front of the car pushing his bike along the ground towards him! He picked his bike up and whacked the front of the car with it. I think to defend himself.

The car drove off, he went to the side of the road and rang the police.

He is very worried that he could now be done for something, and was very shaky and upset when he came in.

We are waiting for the police to call round. He got the registration.

Oddly he said the driver looked straight ahead and did not acknowledge a thing!

 

[Cycling Dan]

Sounds like a interesting situation.
The driver was 100% wrong to undertake.
There is nothing in this case to my knowledge your son "could be done for". Not in a criminal matter anyhow. There could be words about swearing during the fiasco but nothing more than that.
The driver actually driving over your sons bike is out of order. If there was any damage the driver willing knew that driving into the bike could cause damage and if he did is therefore liable for any subsequent damage However since no damage is mention i will assume none was made.. It could be argued this was a bad move to stand in front of the car with the bike in front but non the less. However this would also apply to your Son if any damage was made. Although the difference being if your son can argue that he left threaded by the driver or that he was driving at him then that becomes a serious matter for the police of which would therefore dissolve any liability for your son if damage occurred to the car as it was an act of defense.

With the police visit it would be made known to you if there are any complications with the situation. I would expect them to research into the matter and be able to provide a impartial possible results of the incident greater than what I can provide. Northumbria police are great. 1-2 best police force in the country.
Also were did this happen with a link to Google maps to have a look at what the roundabout looks like.

One suggestion; Sit down with your son and have him write down exactly what he can remember happen. Therefore you can come back to it in the future. As with time and the more he thinks about it the more his memory will change and the more he will forget. (science behind it...) This is due to how the brain works. As you access a memory it deletes it and creates a new one, if you doubt that memory two are made or more depending on how much and what parts you doubt. In turn you can forget what actually happened. So write it down.

 

[CopperCyclist]

From his account, he has done nothing wrong, either in his land discipline, or his subsequent actions. From the account, my actions would have been similar - with the possible exception of leaving my bike in front of the car - not because that's wrong, just because I'm precious about my bike, and wouldn't even lie it down on hard ground!

Reporting it is an excellent idea as the other driver obviously has.

Tell your son not to worry. The absolute worst that can happen is that the other driver tells a pack of lies, and there's no independent evidence so the matter can't go anywhere.

 

[Cycling Dan]

From his account, he has done nothing wrong, either in his land discipline, or his subsequent actions. From the account, my actions would have been similar - with the possible exception of leaving my bike in front of the car - not because that's wrong, just because I'm precious about my bike, and wouldn't even lie it down on hard ground!

Reporting it is an excellent idea as the other driver obviously has.

Tell your son not to worry. The absolute worst that can happen is that the other driver tells a pack of lies, and there's no independent evidence so the matter can't go anywhere.

So if hitting the car with his bike damage was created would he not be liable? Providing it was decided there was not threat. I know this becomes a different area of law outside the polices but i was just wondering if you knew.

 

[jarlrmai]

The driver ignoring him is not unusual they are just trying to wish the cyclist away.

This kind of incident is why a lot of us wear cameras.

 

[spacecat]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

The driver hasn't reported anything, it was my son that reported it.

The police have been round, the female officer was an avid cyclist! She said he didn't do anything wrong and they were going to pay a visit and have a word with him about his driving standards. If there is car damage I think it will be considered self defence.

The bike is a tough old mtb that has seen plenty of battering on the Lakeland fells. Was just thinking had it been my road bike it may have ended up looking like a pringle.........or a pringle inserted somewhere!

He has just ordered a camera this evening.

 

[Cycling Dan]

Thanks for your replies everyone.

The driver hasn't reported anything, it was my son that reported it.

The police have been round, the female officer was an avid cyclist! She said he didn't do anything wrong and they were going to pay a visit and have a word with him about his driving standards. If there is car damage I think it will be considered self defence.

The bike is a tough old mtb that has seen plenty of battering on the Lakeland fells. Was just thinking had it been my road bike it may have ended up looking like a pringle.........or a pringle inserted somewhere!

He has just ordered a camera this evening.

Im intrigued, which camera? Anything with ATC at the front I would cancel.

 

[classic33]

Im intrigued, which camera? Anything with ATC at the front I would cancel.

I've used one with Kodak on the front. handy when it came to him giving his version.

 

[BSRU]

The driver hasn't reported anything, it was my son that reported it.

If the driver has not reported anything he could be in big trouble, leaving the scene of an accident without giving insurance details for one.

You son should be fine, hopefully the car driver will not.

 

[fossyant]

One worrd of advice to car drivers.... don't mess with tough old MTB's. Mine made a bit of a mess of the car that hit me, just a couple of scratches on the bike.

Your son did nothing wrong. The driver will get a good ticking off, and most folk will crap themselves at cops knocking on the door. If they are not that sort of person, then now't you can do. What will happen is the incident will be logged as intelligence against the car/driver, this helps any 'victim' further down the line should the driver be a 'bad egg'. I had a run in with a driver, ended up my word vs him, but the officer did investigate, and would have pressed charges if there was evidence, but the incident was logged against the car. I was then told the driver was 'known' to them - i.e. he was a 'bad egg'.

 

[CopperCyclist]

So if hitting the car with his bike damage was created would he not be liable? Providing it was decided there was not threat. I know this becomes a different area of law outside the polices but i was just wondering if you knew.

Well I suppose you could be picky. If he cared nothing for his own well being and decided to intentionally damage the car as revenge, then it would be criminal damage.

However if, as would be more likely on the balance of probabilities, he was fearing for his own safety and struck the car with his bike to get it to stop and not injure him or damage his bike beyond repair, then he has a defence of self defence.

 

[spacecat]

The officer is going to call and have a talk with the driver this weekend and report back. She was of the opinion that my son was quite restrained in his actions. I don't think I would have been in those circumstances.

I just hope it leads to a bit more thought and better judgement on the drivers part in future. I think that largely its an inability of motorists to correctly judge the speed of a bike, and a safe place to pass. The advertising of the motor car on an open road going fast and symbolising freedom no longer translates in reality.

 

[Brandane]

The police have been round, the female officer was an avid cyclist! She said he didn't do anything wrong and they were going to pay a visit and have a word with him about his driving standards. If there is car damage I think it will be considered self defence.

Is that ALL they are going to do? If your son was injured in any way, or the bike was damaged (even scratched) as a result of this incident, then the driver was obliged BY LAW to stop at the scene and exchange names and addresses with your son. If they failed to do that, as seems to be the case, then they should be getting reported for those offences, and probably careless driving as well. Were there any witnesses?

The fact that they didn't stop would have me thinking there might be other issues with things like insurance, MOT, and licence offences. Perhaps they are disqualified, or maybe had a wee drink before getting behind the wheel.

 

[spacecat]

An update.

The police visited him, he said he did nothing wrong, and is going to persue a civil case for the damage to his car.

The police said its now out of their hands. He can do that if he wishes, and what happened previous to the damage will not count in that case. They also said there is nothing they can charge him with as no traffic laws were broken.

Just sooooo bloody angry now. Perhaps it is a waste of time reporting these things!

 

[jarlrmai]

So how does he have your details to pursue the case, he just drove off?