Rule no. 1

[CopperBrompton]

Why do you think junctions don't include driveways? Any of those vehicles could have turned into any of those driveways without warning while you were alongside.

 

[BentMikey]

Actually that's not quite true - the oncoming vehicles would prevent such turns for much of the video clip. For the rest, where there are gaps in the traffic, it should be fairly obvious that Jon's alert and watching what's going on and being reasonably careful. I rather liked his polite wait for the oncoming right-turning vehicle.

 

[CopperBrompton]

I've watched the video again, and no matter how alert he may be, even stopping dead instantly wouldn't stop him getting side-swiped.

His life, his choice, but it does seem ironic to criticise a perfectly safe (if utterly pointless) overtake while engaging in highly risky ones himself.

 

[ACW]

in my thirty years of cycling i have learnt one thing, cars must overtake a cyclist, circumstances, speed limits, junctions don't matter. i have been following a car in front (10m) at 30mph (speed limit) it was down a hill, and the car behind still pushed his way into the gap forcing me to slow down to give him room.

 

[jonredhornet]

Well, there is risk in everything isn't there. I disagree with you regarding how risky this was.

For perspective, if you were taking your advanced motorcycle test you would be expected to advance past a queue of traffic in this situation, and between traffic on a dual carriageway. And the onus on advanced driving is safety. I've also followed police motorcycle riders doing exactly the same thing. Like I say, there is risk in everything and there was a risk of somebody turning into a driveway, but given the situation at hand I consider it a small risk and I think I cycled in a safe and considerate manner. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Just curious Ben, do you never filter on roads where there are driveways?

 

[BentMikey]

I suspect Ben is a non-filter type of rider?

 

[Rhythm Thief]

OK, seriously - please educate a beginner cyclist as to what the problem was here, apart from the little social exchange of a dirty look + some beeping & waving. I've watched the video several times, and don't get it.

It's legal for the driver to overtake, he/she left lots of space while doing so, and no-one was placed in a dangerous position as far as I can see. OK, it ultimately didn't get the driver very far, but so long as it wasn't a dangerous move by the driver, so what?

Had this happened to me, I honestly don't think I would have been bothered, and I certainly wouldn't have started beeping & gesticulating.

I agree, and I'm far from being a beginner. I'd have been overtaking (not undertaking), I'd have stayed in primary as you did: the only thing I wouldn't have bothered with was the pointless horn use and waving your arms about. Why bother? the bloke overtook safely, albeit pointlessly; why create bad feeling? Just get on with your life.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I don't agree with the cut of your post, although I think you have a valid point on use of the horn, but that's really rather minor compared with the stupid overtake. I'm willing to bet that the driver realises the pointlessness of their overtake, and is far less likely to do something like that again. I often see signs of driver embarassment when they make overtakes like this on me.

Good on Jon for making an effort to educate this driver, without being confrontational.

Don't talk a load of rubbish. If the driver's thought about it at all, he's thought "what's his problem?" or something similar. While I agree that the overtake was pretty pointless, it really didn't strike me as worth getting all worked up over. In that sense, it was definitely confrontational; the driver gave the cyclist plenty of room and overtook legally and considerately. If he chooses to then come to a stop 50 yards up the road, that hardly seems like something to go blowing your horn and waving your arms around for. (I know it wasn't you, by the way.)

 

[CopperBrompton]

For perspective, if you were taking your advanced motorcycle test you would be expected to advance past a queue of traffic in this situation

As a former IAM Observer (volunteer instructor for the advanced motorcycling test), I disagree: this would be one situation in which you would be expected not to filter.

Just curious Ben, do you never filter on roads where there are driveways?

Only if I'm able to get sufficient distance from the queue to give me some reaction time, and somewhere to go.

I will happily filter when there is oncoming traffic (if room) as that's one situation where you know nobody is going to be able to turn right!

 

[CopperBrompton]

I suspect Ben is a non-filter type of rider?

You couldn't be more wrong. :-)

I would say that, on average, 75% of the London cycling I do is filtering.

 

[2Loose]

But sometimes don't you just want to point out that the drivers have gained nothing except a short lived cycle scalp?

I liked the response from jon, as a cyclistmotorcyclist I think his riding was fine, but although the car driver did a safe overtake (which in itself is a good thing), he wasn't looking far enough enough ahead to judge his actions properly. 'Must get past the cyclist' attitude. Misjudging the speed of the cyclist and not looking ahead caused Jons actions, which imho were sarcastic and amusing.

While the guy sat in traffic afterwards, i would hope it made him realise that his overtake was a little impatient and for no reason at all as far as progressing safely anyway..

 

[Rhythm Thief]

But sometimes don't you just want to point out that the drivers have gained nothing except a short lived cycle scalp?

Not really. I'll cheerfully point out other drivers' dangerous actions to them, but otherwise all I'm trying to do is get around. If someone wants to overtake me and then stop, that's fine, as long as they do it safely.

 

[hackbike 666]

Same basics as what cyclists do every day.

 

[2Loose]

Not really. I'll cheerfully point out other drivers' dangerous actions to them, but otherwise all I'm trying to do is get around. If someone wants to overtake me and then stop, that's fine, as long as they do it safely.

When that overtake stops you from moving across to the right to filter past stationary traffic in less than 50 yards time, are you sure it doesn't rankle...just a little bit?

I have seen 'must overtake the bike at all costs' in cases where the car leaves no space for the cyclist to overtake parked cars so many times, in effect boxing them in (sometimes me in primary) and forcing them to a stop because they haven't looked ahead, car carries on regardless and oblivious.
Oh and I agree with Hackers, this is fairly normal, but nonetheless undesirable driving. It makes an extra obstacle where there are enough already.

I think any lessons in looking ahead make for better drivers all round for the future.

 

[Origamist]

I didn't get as far as the filtering on my first view (I was more concerned with a possible dooring when Jon passed the first vehicles on the left!).

Filtering in that situation (a residential road with off-street parking) presents additional problems as pointed out by Ben. What's more, any driver who is only a few yards from home is already thinking about putting the pizza in the oven or avoiding ironing duties - his/her concentration is on the wane. That said, given the speed of the traffic - stationary or very slow moving and the oncoming traffic, you should have time to see the front offside wheel of the vehicle turn, but IMO it is risky filtering in that situation as you are relying heavily on observation and reflexes to get you out of trouble. If you are happy to accept the increased risk (and we all have different risk thermostats), expect to have problems from time to time when filtering.