Rule no. 1

[Rhythm Thief]

Would you do the same on a bicycle?

Good god, no. What am I, suicidal? I wouldn't do it in an artic if it was genuinely dangerous for anyone.

 

[johnsie]

Unless I'm going to sit in line with the cars I have no choice but to go right.

One particular incline (it was a hill for the first couple of months of commuting!) has queuing / slow moving traffic every morning, and there is absolutely no room on the left to pass the traffic - and the pavement, if I were so minded, is not an alternative due to poor surface and school children.

The more of us cyclists there are, the more drivers will also be cyclists and be able to set an example for others.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I'm not among the posters who have a problem with jonredhornet filtering, or with the way he filters. In fact, he did nothing different from what I would have done.

 

[skrx]

I'd have probably just tinged the bell as I went past the driver and smiled my best smug smile :-).

Whether I'd let the oncoming car turn across me would depend on how fast I was going (i.e. how much momentum I had to lose) and the type of car (e.g. I've never had a 4x4 driver wave/thank/acknowledge me letting them go ahead when it's my right of way, but drivers of slow vans usually do).

 

[BentMikey]

Wrong but fun. The thing you have to remember is that once you've stopped 44 tonnes of tanker and liquid, it's not easy to get going again. So anyone indicating I don't mind stopping for; anyone not indicating is going straight on and they can argue with the trailer. I don't push this to the limit: if it's obvious that they're coming round (indicating or not), then I'll let them go. Usually.

So a bit of a screaming hypocrite then, at least as regards Jon's videos and your comments regarding his actions.

 

[downfader]

Why do you think junctions don't include driveways? Any of those vehicles could have turned into any of those driveways without warning while you were alongside.

I think you're misunderstanding the code/RTAct slightly there, Ben. The directive is towards junctions and giveway markings and signs, traffic lights etc, not driveways.

If you can show us the relative legislation that shows overtaking is forbidden by driveways then please do so (noting that it would make the drivers overtake illegal in the process)

Secondly any vehicle turning into a driveway or making a u-turn should be driven with due care and attention under UK law. If they fail to do so and take out a motorcyclist or cyclist then they have not done their duty as a responsible motorist/road user.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

So a bit of a screaming hypocrite then, at least as regards Jon's videos and your comments regarding his actions.

Call me obtuse, but I'm not sure I can see how the two are connected. Besides, it works the other way too: only tonight I stopped the truck because someone was coming onto the roundabout from my right not indicating, only to dive off at the exit before me.

 

[Origamist]

I can't see a fault with the cycling style in the video.

Complaints on overtaking the cars too closely. I don't really agree. Possibly more room could be given but it's hard to get an accurate idea from videos.

If you're going to pass parked vehicles at approx 3ft you're in the range where you can easily get clipped. This might not sound too bad if your only hitting the edge of the door, but the problem is that it throws you into the road - at the mercy of following traffic. If you manage to sweve at the last minute, you need to correct yourself quickly as you could be facing oncoming traffic (in Jon's vid the road is wet making it more likely that you could lose your front wheel, if you turn to sharply).

Filtering. I would have done the same. The speed was low, so he could of easily stopped if anyone had randomly pulled into their drive way. Jon was very considerate at the junction...it's much better just to let people across like that, than carry on...just because of the car/van flashes people across they won't wait for the filtering cyclist to carry on.

Jon's speed was low, but even a tap from a 1 to 2 tonne vehicle at low speed can send you into the path of oncoming traffic that is likely to be travelling at 30mph.

On residential roads with lots off-street parking you need to be vigilant at all times if you're going to filter. Stationary cars and slow moving cars present different problems, as do high-sided vehicles. I'm not saying don't filter in these circumstances, but make sure you're making an informed decision as to the hazards. Far too many people see a queue of cars and think "overtake" or "undertake" without giving too much thought to the traffic/milieu.

 

[BentMikey]

IIRC you commented or implied in the past to the effect that that'll teach them not to indicate. Your actions teach a lesson by potentially bringing a great deal of danger to the mix, whilst not making any effective communication about the cause of your annoyance. Drivers are put at risk by you, whilst they have little or no chance in working out what they did wrong.

Contrast that with Jon's actions, where his actions bring no danger to anyone, and make it obvious exactly what the driver did wrong. There is every opportunity to realise their mistake and learn from it. You seem to accept that it is possible for drivers to learn from their mistakes as you didn't challenge my point that some do, and you suggested that Jon's overtake was an elegant way of demonstrating their mistake.

Hypocrite.

 

[BentMikey]

I think Origamist might actually be right with his 3ft estimate, but only by the rear of the blue van. The rest of the vehicles seemed to get a full van's width, so considerably more than Origamist's own 4ft safety gap (which is really too small according to the experts).

 

[Rhythm Thief]

IIRC you commented or implied in the past to the effect that that'll teach them not to indicate. Your actions teach a lesson by potentially bringing a great deal of danger to the mix, whilst not making any effective communication about the cause of your annoyance. Drivers are put at risk by you, whilst they have little or no chance in working out what they did wrong.

Contrast that with Jon's actions, where his actions bring no danger to anyone, and make it obvious exactly what the driver did wrong. There is every opportunity to realise their mistake and learn from it. You seem to accept that it is possible for drivers to learn from their mistakes as you didn't challenge my point that some do, and you suggested that Jon's overtake was an elegant way of demonstrating their mistake.

Hypocrite.

I'm not sure that's true. (Nor, incidentally, am I sure that the cause of mature debate is advanced by you resorting to name calling, but there we go.) I try and communicate as effectively as possible from the cab window, but it's not easy. Besides, I'm not necessarily trying to teach anyone a lesson: all I'm doing is trying to keep the thing rolling and being guided by the signals (or lack of them) of the vehicle on the roundabout. If they don't want me pulling out on them, they have only to use their indicators as they should have been taught in their driving lessons.

Regarding Jon's overtake, I think the overtaking itself was the most eloquent (not elegant) statement he could have made regarding the pointless overtake of the chap in the silver car. Personally, I don't believe his cause was advanced by the horn and hand gestures. For a start, while it's obvious to you and me what he meant, I don't think it's necessarily obvious to the driver, who has overtaken safely and legally (albeit pointlessly) and is then faced with a mildly irate cyclist flapping his hands about and blowing a horn. I may be wrong about this, but my instinct is that some drivers may be willing to learn, but most are not, and if anything at all is achieved by the horn and hand gestures, it's to further perpetuate the "them and us" culture on the road.

Generally, I have to say that I agree with you - see some of my comments on your YouTube vids (I'm ScumOfTheRoad over there) - but I think we might have to agree to differ on this one.

 

[Origamist]

I think Origamist might actually be right with his 3ft estimate, but only by the rear of the blue van. The rest of the vehicles seemed to get a full van's width, so considerably more than Origamist's own 4ft safety gap (which is really too small according to the experts).

I think you're forgetting that the cam is helmet mounted - there's another 10" inches or so to Jon's left elbow. The blue van pass is less than 3 feet, the white vans are just over the 3ft mark.

As I've said, 4ft is not always sufficient - I prefer 6ft, but that's often not possible. Once you're below 4ft, danger from doors increases substantially...

 

[BentMikey]

I think you're forgetting that the cam is helmet mounted - there's another 10" inches or so to Jon's left elbow. The blue van pass is less than 3 feet, the white vans, just over the 3ft mark.

As I've said, 4ft not always sufficient - I prefer 6ft, but that's often not possible. Once you're below 4ft, danger from doors increases substantially...

No, I'm fairly sure of my distances there, and I've taken into account the camera position.

I'm glad to see you're changing your previous stance on 4ft being enough though. That's a good thing!

 

[Origamist]

No, I'm fairly sure of my distances there, and I've taken into account the camera position.!

Like a lot of blokes, you're prone to overestimating length and width...

I'm glad to see you're changing your previous stance on 4ft being enough though. That's a good thing.!

My stance is the same: a minimum of 4 foot is usually sufficient. You can understand that this means that it will not always be sufficient?

Here's the post if anyone is interested:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=976150&postcount=10

Futher details including door widths:

http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=982052&postcount=15

 

[dellzeqq]

I'm wondering what speed John was travelling at. I'm afraid that I've become so conservative about filtering now that I'm riding for two (guiding the girl of my dreams through traffic) that my filtering speed is down to about ten miles an hour on the right and, in the unlikely event of my filtering on the left, about five miles an hour. And that self-imposed limit stood me in good stead when a car made a leftward dash for a parking space and hit me side on....