Sad news - cyclists killed

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YMFB

Ăśber Member
No one gets 'murdered' on our roads. Causing death by dangerous driving is the highest level someone can be charged with, carrying a maximum seven and a half year sentence in both cases, if I can remember rightly.🤔

i don’t think that’s correct.

in the village next to ours a car driver was charged with murder after turning around and ramming a motorcyclist, killing him.

At a later date the driver admitted to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.

Sadly nothing will bring back the victims, not just in this case but in the many similar.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
Here are the sentencing guidelines for Causing death by dangerous driving

https://sentencingcouncil.org.uk/guidelines/causing-death-by-dangerous-driving/?source=7511

The Culpability section is worth a look, as is the Factors increasing seriousness section

Which has nothing to do with you questioning the word accident. If it wasn't an accident, then it was deliberate.

And while they made a deliberate choice3 to drive stupidly, I don't think they made a deliberate choice to kill somebody.
 

katiewlx

Senior Member
No one gets 'murdered' on our roads. Causing death by dangerous driving is the highest level someone can be charged with, carrying a maximum seven and a half year sentence in both cases, if I can remember rightly.🤔

technically I believe you can also be charged with manslaughter, its not either or situation, though the cps rarely seem to bring those as additional charges and sticks with the driving charge, probably because the sentencing would get too complicated.

but you can be charged with attempted murder and dangerous driving, if there is evidence you used your car effectively as a weapon as per this example
https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/...ith-attempted-murder-after-Ipswich-collision/
 

ivegotabike

Active Member
Which has nothing to do with you questioning the word accident. If it wasn't an accident, then it was deliberate.

And while they made a deliberate choice3 to drive stupidly, I don't think they made a deliberate choice to kill somebody.

Accident implies no one is at fault. An accident happens by chance, or from unforeseeable causes.

To end up being arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving indicates that the police believed the harm was foreseeable and, therefore, not an accident.

Negligence is the right word.

I agree the occupants of the car likely didn't intend to kill a couple of cyclists. But they drove in a way that made that outcome foreseeable.

Three arrests indicate three people are suspected of being at fault. That is no accident.

RIP cyclists.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Location
The Urban Fringe
Indeed, which is what I said above.

But choosing to be reckless or negligent does not mean the consequence was intended.

I never suggested it did.

However, since you raise it... when one behaves negligently one must accept that reasonable foreseeable adverse consequences are a potential result.

Knowing this, if a person still chooses to behave in a negligent manner, any such out come might not be intended but they are still equally culpable as the behaviour that bought the death about was as a result of wilful course of conduct.

You might not intend to blow your own brains out playing Russian Roulette, but if you do you have to accept that a) you knew it was a reasonably foreseeable possibility, and b) you're just as dead.

Criminals should not be rewarded because they knew it could happen but didnt really mean it. They should be dealt with on the basis of the results of their unlawful behaviour, and not be granted credit besause a death wasn't their specific goal. The victims dont get such countenance, so why should the criminal ther brought about their death with their unlawful actions be granted any?

Youre either diligently law abiding, or are not. There should be no grey area in between where its sort of understandable besause they didnt mean it and it could happen to any of us. That's nonsense - it only happens to those among us that choose to be criminally negligent, but our legal system is sadly weighted very much in favour of the offender.
 

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
I never suggested it did.

However, since you raise it... when one behaves negligently one must accept that reasonable foreseeable adverse consequences are a potential result.

Knowing this, if a person still chooses to behave in a negligent manner, any such out come might not be intended but they are still equally culpable as the behaviour that bought the death about was as a result of wilful course of conduct.

You might not intend to blow your own brains out playing Russian Roulette, but if you do you have to accept that a) you knew it was a reasonably foreseeable possibility, and b) you're just as dead.

Criminals should not be rewarded because they knew it could happen but didnt really mean it. They should be dealt with on the basis of the results of their unlawful behaviour, and not be granted credit besause a death wasn't their specific goal. The victims dont get such countenance, so why should the criminal ther brought about their death with their unlawful actions be granted any?

Youre either diligently law abiding, or are not. There should be no grey area in between where its sort of understandable besause they didnt mean it and it could happen to any of us. That's nonsense - it only happens to those among us that choose to be criminally negligent, but our legal system is sadly weighted very much in favour of the offender.

Absolutely. I completely agree with all of that.

And causing death by dangerous driving is manslaughter i my book, and should get the same punishment.

In theory, the maximum sentence, life imprisonment, is the same. But far too often the sentence is more lenient.
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
Location
London
As YMFB reports, murder is a separate offence, not connected with careless, reckless or dangerous driving.
One can murder with a vehicle, on or off road. The test is intent to kill. Intent to injure can result in manslaughter. I think there is some ground between where serious injury was intended, resulting in death, amounting to murder.
 
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ivegotabike

Active Member
"In addition to two counts of causing death by dangerous driving, Turner has been charged with failing to stop at the scene of a crash and possession of a class C drug."
 
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