Saddle height question (and random ride ramblings)

[Cubist]

Trail centres vary hugely in terms of their technical levels. Red Routes are perhaps the best exemplar as they are designed supposedly for fit, experienced riders on good quality machines. However, a rider used to some Red Routes thinking they are hardcore are going to be bitten at other trailcentres, as the standard varies hugely. Sherwood Pines is a great example. The red Kitchener Trail is fast, smooth, pedally. There is no contour worth speaking about, and about three rocks in total on the whole trail. There are some bomb-holes and a couple of whoops but to be fair I would happily take a young family round it, as there are no really tricky trail features at all. It is wonderfully flowing singletrack all the way round. Cannock reds are, I'm told, pretty technical. What's difficult about Cannock apparently, is that there are loads of jumps but no landers, so it's punishing.

Dalby red has some great tech features in places, but all are doable. Dalby changes character throughout the whole 23 miles anyway, so will never be boring. There are parts of Dalby that take some very careful riding on an XC hardtail.

Then you go to Wales and Scotland. I once rode the Ae line on the Cube and it was that ride that convinced me to get a full suss bike. The Ae line is steep, rocky, and I mean really rocky. The Cube shook me to bits riding it. Better trails in the Stanes are to be found at Kirroughtree, Mabie and Dalbeattie.

The Marin in Snowdonia is also rocky, but in my opinion flows better than Ae. It makes a hell of a lot of use of loose rocky descents, and yet folk still call it easy. Depends on your styel I reckon.

Llandegla is a great place for a novice/improver. It's designed so everything can be rolled, even all teh drops and jumps on the black sections, but pick up your speed and thrash it, and it becomes a jump filled heaven. It could get pretty harsh if you overdo it though.

 

[screenman]

Why do we so often see lines like this on the forum.


"Of course it doesn't help that the feature is littered with idiots on their bike, cluttering the best line"

I am sure in others eye's the poster of this line is thought of as an idiot.

 

[Motozulu]

Thanks for the summary Cubist - pretty much on the money I'd say. Only ever done Cannock up til now but mates of mine from Derby way tell me the Sherwood red is nowhere near as technical as Cannock. I do admire the lads and lasses who go on the natural trails and want to do it myself one day. Me and lulubel are polar opposite in our experiences in that we are learning in different environments, but as long as we both enjoy the sport - cool.
Like you said the snobs are a shame but you get that in all walks. The werewolf - looks nothing on video in reality it took me probably 10-15 refusals before I finally cracked it - do it without thinking now - but those bloody gawkers are a pain, the one on the vid is stood exactly on my approach. I'm meeting mates up there in an hour to go round the dog, which is something I try to avoid at weekends because of the sheer volume of bikes up there - I'm lucky that as a shift worker I get the trails to myself in midweek, but I've got to do it today with them as they are all mon-fri, 9-5ers Hey ho.

 

[Motozulu]

screenman there is loads of room to watch people do that drop and not be in the way, when I started I watched others do it for tips on approach etc but I was'nt stood where the fella? in the vid was.

 

[lulubel]

@lulubel, yes the videos are often very deceptive. An experienced rider on a big hitting 160 bike with a chest mount Go-Pro riding fast and flowing over most of the trail centres will make it look smooth and simpler than it actually is. You rarely see videos of novices stuttering to a halt and going OTB on a chute filled with babies heads, or losing traction on a tech climb and toppling sideways 'cos they can't unclip.

I did see one vid that was posted by a bloke going so slowly that he was practically stopped most of the time (and had to keep stopping to let people pass), but I think he was doing an audio summary of the route as he rode round .... except the audio was so bad that you couldn't hear what he was saying!! To begin with, I was just sat there watching in disbelief because I couldn't figure out why he was riding so painfully slowly. I know there are plenty of videos of falls out there, but I've been avoiding them because I don't want to see how to do it wrong! Although, I suppose you can learn a lot from watching what to not do as well.

That drop you refer to in your questions re Cannock is the Werewolf I think. I asked the same question once, as you see stuff like that at Dalby, and as you point out, a bit of a drop followed by a few roots shouldn't hold much mystery. The Werewolf however is challenging because it is approached via two trees that are about 800mm apart, so you can't carry speed through it. As you drop in you immediately have to change direction to turn into the sharp right hand turn , and as you haven't got any speed this becomes problematic. Most folk make the mistake of braking on the drop.

Of course it doesn't help that the feature is littered with idiots on their bike, cluttering the best lines

Yes, that's the one. I did notice the tight approach and thought it looked a bit awkward to line up for, and had already decided if I ever get the chance to do a trail centre, it will be on a week day outside of holiday time!

There is something quite similar on one of my regular rides here, except it's much more messy, as I said, because it's natural. I think it's just a narrow path that MTBers have carved out by crossing from one track to another. You approach it on a relatively wide trail (generous vehicle width), but there's a lot of loose stone, and it's a bit uphill so you don't have any speed to speak of, and then you have to make a 90 degree turn into it. It drops down into a little gulley and then up the other side, so you don't have to turn straight afterwards, but it's a bumpy, loose surface and you do have to try and avoid hitting any of the bigger loose rocks, which seem to be in different positions every time I go up there! I just ride up to it slowly, get lined up, and as soon as my front wheel starts to drop off the edge, I let go of the brakes and don't touch them again until I'm on stable-ish ground.

The but I find more difficult is actually further down where there's a low stone wall/bank that the track goes over. At some point, someone has obviously pulled the end of it down, so you can go round the end, but the track actually lines up to go over the bank, and I found that easier on my own bike when the forks were up to it because you don't have to try and steer on the loose stuff.

It's all the loose stone around here that I find really difficult to tackle. The bank I described above gives you a bit of extra speed as you come off it, and you're still going downhill, so you have to try and control the speed on a mass of loose stone, while trying to steer well enough to avoid hitting the bigger bits. It's the feeling of not having much control that I don't like. I suppose it's similar to descending in slippery mud - just a harder landing if you get it wrong.

Then you go to Wales and Scotland. I once rode the Ae line on the Cube and it was that ride that convinced me to get a full suss bike. The Ae line is steep, rocky, and I mean really rocky. The Cube shook me to bits riding it. Better trails in the Stanes are to be found at Kirroughtree, Mabie and Dalbeattie.

The Marin in Snowdonia is also rocky, but in my opinion flows better than Ae. It makes a hell of a lot of use of loose rocky descents, and yet folk still call it easy. Depends on your styel I reckon.

Thanks for all those names of places. I'll look some of them up later and see if I can find anything that looks similar to what I've got around here.

And Lulu I was'nt calling you hardcore I just meant more experienced riders in gener - oh forget it - we have'nt had the best of starts, have we?

Yeah, probably best to just forget it. I think it was just a lot of misunderstanding on both our parts - very easy on forums.

I was thinking, there are loads of people around here who I would describe as hardcore. They go flying down the trails like they think they're immortal, and all the rocks that cause me so much trouble don't seem to affect them at all. I was talking to someone the other day, and I asked him what the trails are like just after it's rained, and he looked at me like I was mad. He said: "You can't come up here for a few days after it's rained. It's much too slippery and dangerous." Anyone who rides MTBs in the UK would probably have found that hilarious, so I guess you only get good at what you're used to. Show him a bit of mud, and he turns into a nervous wreck!

 

[Motozulu]

Morning Lulubel - one BIG advantage I have over you ARE those youtube vids tbf. I can (and do) watch em for tips/lines to avoid etc. You don't have that luxury on the runs you do so it must be much more of a challenge for you - also - me doing purpose built trails means they are (as much as you can say this) safe, I'm not gonna turn a corner and find myself staring down a 200ft ravine at 30mph . Anyway - have a good day, it's a beautiful morning here, sun's blasting on a lovely autumn day - better get going before it get's too busy. See if I can split me other knee.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Someone will probably tell you your legs are too bent - or too short - but I know exactly where you're coming from. Although I think being hit in the stomach by the saddle is probably preferable to being whacked on the backside by it and sent flying over the bars. (I'm yet to try either, and really hope I can get my dropper post before I do!)



I naturally weight the outside on the road bike (after a particularly scary incident years ago on a Post Office bike, when I caught the inside pedal on the tarmac on a roundabout), but I haven't really got any technique for cornering on the MTB yet. I'm still nervously trying to find the point where the front wheel lets go, so I can avoid it in future, and looking for the best way to maintain grip for as long as possible.

lots of roadies ride turns with the outside pedal down, for sure, and for the reasons you've given. very few roadies and mtb-ers actually unweight the saddle completely and drive all their weight through the outside pedal forcing the the tyres into the dirt.

 

[lulubel]

lots of roadies ride turns with the outside pedal down, for sure, and for the reasons you've given. very few roadies and mtb-ers actually unweight the saddle completely and drive all their weight through the outside pedal forcing the the tyres into the dirt.

That's true. I certainly don't get out of the saddle to corner on the road bike. I do tend to put more weight through my outside leg as I corner faster, though, because I'm convinced it helps to stop the bike drifting if you're taking the corner a bit fast - possibly because you can balance that with more weight on your inside hand to guide the bike through the turn. Maybe. It seems to work, anyway, and it's got me out of a few of those swearing under my breath moments when I know I've taken a corner too fast.

Morning Lulubel - one BIG advantage I have over you ARE those youtube vids tbf. I can (and do) watch em for tips/lines to avoid etc. You don't have that luxury on the runs you do so it must be much more of a challenge for you - also - me doing purpose built trails means they are (as much as you can say this) safe, I'm not gonna turn a corner and find myself staring down a 200ft ravine at 30mph . Anyway - have a good day, it's a beautiful morning here, sun's blasting on a lovely autumn day - better get going before it get's too busy. See if I can split me other knee.

I hope you have/had/are having a good time, and you manage to get through it without any more injuries. I've manged to get away with plenty of bruises and a few grazes so far, but I know it's only a matter of time - which reminds me, I must put a first aid kit together to carry with me.

The most scary fall I've had so far was when I decided to tackle a big loop that I hadn't done before, and the trail back down was really tough. (I haven't been down it again since because I figured I could do with some more experience and a better bike first.) I got tired and fell off nearly at the end of about 3km of rough, stony descent, and hit my knee on the end of the bars. I must have caught a nerve - although I didn't realise that immediately - and it was so painful. I managed to get myself and the bike up, and just stood, leaning on the bike, feeling sick and wishing I could "just go home". Then I looked to the side - I'd just been staring at the trail until then, and didn't realise I'd been missing the most incredible view - and saw the town where I live over 1000 ft below me. You don't realise how vulnerable you are until you can't bend your knee (so can't ride or walk), and you know you have to get yourself off that mountain somehow. Fortunately, the worst of the pain wore off pretty quickly, and I was able to get back on the bike and carry on.

I'd love to see some video of people riding the trails around here. All I've managed to find so far is the "official" video of the MTB race that takes place every autumn (next month, in fact - and no, I'm not going to attempt it, although I won't rule it out for the future - it's about 60-70km and the most I've done so far is about half that), but they seem to like showing people slogging up hills rather than descending technical stuff. I also know there's some woodland single track somewhere around here that I'd like to ride, but my attempts to find it have drawn a blank so far - and led me down lots of tricky dead ends! Hopefully, I'll get to do some rides with my doctor and his mates (which I talked about in another thread) once I've got my new bike, and I'll find out about loads of fun places to ride. There's also a cycle holiday company who are based on the other side of the mountains that divide us from the coast (the ones I ride on most of the time), so I might contact them and ask if I can join them on one of their rides. (I found out about the single track on their website, so they must know where it is!)

I stuck to the roads today because I'm still recovering from this stupid virus and I need to take it a bit easy, but I'm going back up the trails tomorrow when it's a bit quieter.

 

[Cubist]

Why do we so often see lines like this on the forum.


"Of course it doesn't help that the feature is littered with idiots on their bike, cluttering the best line"

I am sure in others eye's the poster of this line is thought of as an idiot.

The reference was directly to the video. Did you actually watch it before you leapt for the angry keys?

The rider falls off because he has to modify his line twice, once at the top where he would have had a better approach had he been able to swing wide to enter the feature, and again at the bottom because some clown is parked right where he needs to go to exit smoothly.

Meet me, read any of my posts and you will see I am only ever keen to help others. You ask how often we see lines like that on this forum.... have you got any examples? If you can find anywhere where I have displayed the out of context attitude you are referring to I will apologise profusely.

 

[screenman]

I took feature as being the drop off on the trail, not the video. But saying that there must have been many a time you were an idiot or where you born extremely clever at everything you do?

 

[Cubist]

Sorry, but you seem to be deliberately picking fights, and I don't do that .

 

[lulubel]

I took feature as being the drop off on the trail, not the video. But saying that there must have been many a time you were an idiot or where you born extremely clever at everything you do?

screenman, if you can't be nice, please go away and stop trying to derail my thread.

 

[screenman]

I sincerely apologise, it is just the fact that I do not like inexperienced cyclist being called idiots. I am out.

 

[billflat12]

Don't wish to hijack the thread but don,t understand all this natural trail hype, good trail centers are designed with our enjoyment in mind and do this very well as well as being sustainable, some are a little sanitized but one of my local favorites needs no facilities & relies on a honesty box , most importantly it keeps a natural charm & flows, some features can distract some riders but mostly in a positive way, to avoid the rush means avoid 9-5 summer weekend slots, "Check out the switchbacks on the descents to see how riders slow then shift their weight on the corners & make their own use out of some features available on the trail " It,s all down to expierience and making things work for yourself.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmCM4lbrlo

 

[02GF74]

.... back to the video, I see pleny of room to the left of the so called idiot - or is that not the correct line?

I like the way the s.c.i. just kinda stood there like nothing had happpened despite a rider falling off!!