Scout Camp and 'Care' Issues

[fossyant]

Argh,

My lad and lass are off to a County Camp at weekend for 3 nights, and 3000 Scouts !

As you know my lad's just been diagnosed Type 1. I've literally just been told I can't come on camp as carer as there wasn't space ? Checked with 'County' and the issue isn't space but I don't have a DBS - my Scout's CRB lapsed a year ago (ex. helper).

So, Scouts seem to think they will be OK as one of the Leaders is Type 2 (it's not the same condition).

Will they be prepared to weigh out his food, carb calculate, make sure he has injected the right amount, then be there when he prick tests 10 times a day, and remind him to do this. Do they know what to to if he goes hypo ? What his blood sugar range should be last thing at night so he doesn't go hypo in the night.

It's alot for them to take on, and none of them have had training. My wife is of the opinion 'yes they have to provide the care' but I know how hard work it is on a Scout Camp for the leaders, and if they aren't suitably trained and don't know the signs, it's a risk.

Going to have to draw up a detailed schedule. I think it may scare them.

 

[Sharky]

Have you come across a mar sheet?
http://www.coventry.gov.uk/download...le_medication_administration_record_mar_sheet

My daughter is in care and these are used both by the care home staff and when she is on a home visit to us. She is on a cocktail of drugs and very important not to miss a dose or give double.

Her meds are pre-packed for the month in blister packs as well.

If you ask your GP or chemist or any social services person or health worker, they should know about them and if it will help your situation.

Keith

 

[classic33]

I'd give a detailed sheet, to the Scout Leader in charge of your sons group.
Detailing what has to be taken, when & how, including what action is required and make certain there is a direct contact number, clearly visible, just in case.
The same sheet should include anything that he's not to have, be given.

 

[MontyVeda]

...
Will they be prepared to weigh out his food, carb calculate, make sure he has injected the right amount, then be there when he prick tests 10 times a day, and remind him to do this.
...

How old is the lad? Does he need to be watched like a hawk whilst managing his illness (or having it managed for him) or is he of an age where he can take responsibility? You say he's 'just been diagnosed'... Does he fully understand the responsibility he has in managing his illness or is it all very new to him?

What I'm driving at is, he's going to have to take full responsibility at some point... letting him go to camp with this responsibility on his shoulders may be good for him in the long run, but may also be dangerous if he doesn't really know what he's supposed to do yet.

... Do they know what to to if he goes hypo ? What his blood sugar range should be last thing at night so he doesn't go hypo in the night.

...

If they don't know then you need to make sure they do know.

I'd also say it's important to not openly worry so much as to make him afraid of his illness... it's something he needs to learn to live with, understand and manage, not something he should be scared of.

 

[classic33]

Self medication may not be allowed, given the number attending.
Smaller district level camps always required that ALL medication be handed over to one leader.

 

[fossyant]

I'm seeing what I can do with Scout HQ.

Taking the medication isn't an issue - this can be with the leaders as it's taken at meal times and bed times. Yes he understands what he needs to do, but like most teenagers, can't be ar$ed. Even this weekend he missed one injection as he hadn't bothered to eat breakfast, nor any blood tests. We left him to it as we were busy with DIY. He is 13 and has only had this 2 months. The night time injection can be difficult as it's painful. He may also need some space/privacy to inject as some of the kids are a royal pain in the butt. He still needs moral support when injecting or testing. If he's low when testing, he can be shakey and may have to stab himself 3 times before he get's blood out, or he misses the test kit. He threw the tester across the room last week. Going low also means he gets snappy, so this is another thing you have to get round.

As it's County camp, then he is not with the leaders most of the day as they are out and about doing activities with an 'activity' leader. Only the groups' leaders will have the details.

Yup it's bloody late to be told this - like most Scout groups they are a bit 'horizontal' about being organised and hadn't thought about the DBS requirements. The issue is how to treat hypo's and we're noticing he's getting more with the warm weather as blood glucose is absorbed faster.

He does need to stand on his own two feet, but at the minute it's early, and neither he or us fully understand everything. Going a bit high over the weekend isn't a problem, it's the lows, and if he isn't with anyone that is aware of the condition, then this gets tricky - he's fairly quiet so won't go and tell someone. He isn't noticing lows after exercise (adrenalin confusing the low feelings).

As it stands, the leaders aren't aware of the condition - the school has training, but not Scouts. It's new to him, and for us to plonk a care plan on the Scouts at this short notice is going to send them in a tiz.

The main issue is that the leaders haven't had time to adjust to what care is needed - and as all teenagers, they need to be reminded - my lad proves this, he forgets !

It's partly concern about my lad managing it, but it's also concern for the leaders as they have enough to do - me being there working out food weights etc takes the load off.

 

[Arjimlad]

As a cub leader, I'll admit I would be somewhat concerned about this situation, and liaise closely with the parents about it beforehand - If you have a chat with the leader now, and supply a plan of what's needed it may be that an assistant is delegated to fulfil what your son needs over the duration.

At least this is not one of those situations where you are trying to get started at camp, people are arriving and you get a parent march up and say that little Albert needs XYZ medication thrice nightly, here are four sleeping bags because he will wet the bed, he has to be in a tent with young Lightfingered Fisticuffs because he won't sleep if he is placed with anyone else, and he won't eat ANY of the food you have planned on the menus so you should really re-think every meal to cater for his eating fads.

 

[fossyant]

As a cub leader, I'll admit I would be somewhat concerned about this situation, and liaise closely with the parents about it beforehand - If you have a chat with the leader now, and supply a plan of what's needed it may be that an assistant is delegated to fulfil what your son needs over the duration.

At least this is not one of those situations where you are trying to get started at camp, people are arriving and you get a parent march up and say that little Albert needs XYZ medication thrice nightly, here are four sleeping bags because he will wet the bed, he has to be in a tent with young Lightfingered Fisticuffs because he won't sleep if he is placed with anyone else, and he won't eat ANY of the food you have planned on the menus so you should really re-think every meal to cater for his eating fads.

Been there- I used to help out with Beevers and Cub camps, and the usual meds have been tablets and inhalers, who needs to sleep with who, yadda yadda.

But it is a concern I didn't yet want to plonk on the leaders, as having been in their shoes, running a camp it's hard work. It's probaby easier in a 'group' camp basis where you are generally together, but is someone going to follow my lad round with 3000 others on site and remind him to blood test just before a rope climb, when he is 'too busy' having a right laugh. He will forget.

The key issue is the carb counting - get that right, then it's easy. So I'll give the leader the carb and cals book, and say - here you go - weigh out the spaghetti and work the carbs, and that's it. Then there is the issue of if he actually doesn't eat the food if it's not nice - he's injected for x amount of carbs - he has to eat x amount of carbs.

He does understand it, but it's the first time he has been camping since diagnosis and he is still on a steep learning curve.

 

[Arjimlad]

It does sound pretty complicated and hard for your son to manage, considering all the excitement of camp.

Perhaps there is an assistant who would be able to monitor this with him, though ?

I drew up a list and time schedule for the camp meds which I saw to morning, noon and night, but if the cook and leaders are aware I would expect they'd rise to the challenge. Will leaders generally know where the scouts will be on site at any given time ?

 

[fossyant]

Once you are in the swing of things, it's OK to manage. But we are only 9 weeks into this !

They haven't any assistants, there are three leaders going. We could work out roughly what dose he needs if we know the meal plan - that will help. The issue is my lad could be anywhere on site and it's massive. And, as you say, what feels like 5 minutes, could be a few hours. He will also need to carry a day bag with the tester and snacks in it.

I am annoyed as it's stupidly short notice and all the camping bags have to be dropped off on Wednesday for taking up early (traffic on site).

 

[cosmicbike]

Personally, I would have you along. I did a County camp at Bentley Copse last year with Beavers/Cubs/Scouts and the young people (can't call them kids/children anymore) are just so busy doing activities that even those who need only basic medication would forget.
As a Cub Scout Leader and Nights Away Permit holder I would not be comfortable in taking your son to such any event, unless I + 1 other had been shown (not told, shown) how to administer things like hypo pens, witnessed him being the tests and done them myself for him just in case. I have 2 that take Epi-pens and we insist on just that. I'm not going to quote POR but from memory it's pretty much that IIRC.
You can look at the meal plan, and work from that, but I dare say you're wasting your time. As soon as the tuck shop opens 99% of the kids will gorge on fizzy and sweets (I like to get my Pack to buy a badge for their camp blankets), so that plan will become worthless....
Talk to Gilwel Park, they should be able to push a CRB through this week as the Scouts Association has a priority route though disclosure and are normally done in 7 days anyway, and at such a large event I'd have figured they would be practically biting your hand off if you offer to attend since parents halpers are like hens teeth nowadays from experience...

 

[fossyant]

Looks like we will have to 'dump' my son on them. Phoned Scout HQ and it's the same, go during the day, but go home at night. Site access will be a nightmare.

I'll have a chat with the leaders tonight as I don't think they know. My worry is the off doing activities, no-one knows where they are until the set meal times. He's OK with sweets and drinks and doesn't go silly, but can quite often adjust his dose to 'allow' for snacks, then not have one, so goes low.

It's a big stress to put on the leaders. PS we don't have a hypo pen as because we are near'ish to hospitals, it's a 999 call - they don't issue them. That's only if he goes too low and can't eat or drink (passes out).

It's such a shame, and one of the reasons there are so few 'helpers' - the Government's paperwork puts folk off, and all this child abuse stuff stops many helpers wanting to get involved at all.

 

[Brains]

As an Explorer Scout Leader with a wife who is Type 1 and currently one Explorer who is also Type 1, I understand the issues.

I would say it is not the responsibility of the Leaders to manage his condition, if he can't do it himself, and for whatever reason a parent can't go along, then I'd say he can't go either.

Bottom line is the Leaders have got more than enough to deal with without havering to chase up one kid to take medication, or work out what he has/has not eaten.

I'd triple check the CRB expiry issue, as technically CRBs don't have a expiry date, but each company (or Scouts) have a recognised expiry date, some are 3 years, some are 5 years, some are 10 years and many are never.

 

[byegad]

Sadly, I too feel he would be best not going. The responsibility to look after this condition is, at the moment yours, and IF you are unsure that the camp leadership can afford the kind of supervision he has recently proved to need, it's a no-go. I'm sorry for the lad, but perhaps this would ensure he was motivated to take control of this life threatening (If ignored, or badly managed!) condition.

Harsh, but to me, with a background that includes taking children on trips, this is your only safe choice.

 

[oldfatfool]

As an ex venture scout leader I wouldn't want the responsibility, untrained and unpaid, hard enough trying to keep an eye on a million and one other factors with kids running round doing activities. If the child wasn't responsible enough to maintain their own regime (possibly with prompt) then the parent would be invited along in our cub/ scout section.

I remember we (couple of hundred of us) took 6000 venture scouts to Europe, 5 groups of 1200 teenagers visiting 5 camps and then meeting up at the end at Euro Disney. What a riot, how do you control the little buggers in Amsterdam,and that was just the leaders