Sensible car maintenance advice?

[Drago]

In a rear wheel drive car? Are you sure?

Yes. Class 1 Police Driver 1995-2002.

In a really powerful car, M5 or summat like that, you need to be a bit more sensitive with the loud pedal than simply stamping on it.

However, in your average rear drive yawnbucket like a Sierra 1.6 you want that back end to bite, and bite quick. Braking will spin you, lifting off will bring on a tank slapper, which leaves you only the accelerator (or sticking your head up your arse and praying, whichever you feel is most likely to help) to try and force some traction to push things back in line. Its utterly counter intuitive and takes some training to reprogram your reflexes.

 

[Profpointy]

Yebbut if the back is sliding, by definition there's not enough grip - how does attempting to put power down (through the back) give you more grip? The back will spin out more surely?

I appreciate the police training thing, but something is lost in the explanation I think

 

[Drago]

I guess instead of just sliding the tyres then start pushing. TBH I never asked - Just nodded a lot then went out and played in the Ford Sapphire like I was told.

 

[Oldfentiger]

By applying some well judged power, the point at which the rear tyres regain grip is more gradual and avoids the 'snapping back' effect.

 

[Profpointy]

I guess instead of just sliding the tyres then start pushing. TBH I never asked - Just nodded a lot then went out and played in the Ford Sapphire like I was told.

As it happens once witnessed a Morgan doing a 180 spin in wet roads in Edinburgh. He was (or seemed to be) driving quietly enough, then suddenly he span and went up the pavement backwards. I surmised he'd booted it a bit more than he'd meant to and simply span

 

[raleighnut]

As it happens once witnessed a Morgan doing a 180 spin in wet roads in Edinburgh. He was (or seemed to be) driving quietly enough, then suddenly he span and went up the pavement backwards. I surmised he'd booted it a bit more than he'd meant to and simply span

3 1/2 litre Rover engine in a pram (albeit a very nice pram)

 

[Jody]

I guess instead of just sliding the tyres then start pushing. TBH I never asked - Just nodded a lot then went out and played in the Ford Sapphire like I was told.

The drive wheels will push the car forward so due to the opposite lock you stop the car pivoting in its axis and control the slide.

 

[Drago]

Yeah, that's what I meant to say!

 

[jonny jeez]

mmm, I rather think the first part of your post is a good argument for not teaching about skids. Learning to control skids is all very well, but with a modern car there's really very little excuse for skidding unless you are driving like a twat in the first place - and I speak from experience of that having fishtailed yp the road culminating in a trip through the hedge. Analysing it afterwards I worked out lifting off the throttle was the wrong thing to do in a front wheel drive car in oversteer. Then the real lesson dawned on me - I should never have got myself into the situation of needing to handle a skid in the first place. Catching the skid is easy, but correcting the correction is harder, and correcting the correcrion to the correction was too hard for me at least - but again, shouldn't have needed to had I been driving competantly in the first place.

If you have had a number of fishtail incidents then, snow or otherwise, then you need to learn the real lesson of not driving too fast for the conditions. Please think about this as I'm not having an internet dig - I've been there

I see your point but also consider that whilst modern cars do have driving aids, those that new drivers can afford, most likely won't have much beyond ABS . A 1 litre car is able to loose the back on an invisable diesel fuel spill as easily as a 3.0 litre. Also keep in mind that cats jump out...drivers do daft things and stuff just happens, that can cause a driver to take evasive action...this could involve or induce a skid, regardless if the drivers speed or care.

In those instances, be confidently able to control the skid, without overreacting is a great skill to have.

Ps, one of the snow skids was definitely my fault, no argument there.

 

[raleighnut]

Those very 'driving aids' (Traction Control) could be dangerous when trying to control a slide, why do you think they can be switched off in 'Track' mode

 

[Profpointy]

Those very 'driving aids' (Traction Control) could be dangerous when trying to control a slide, why do you think they can be switched off in 'Track' mode

Umm, I think it's to allow hooligans to believe they are The Stig.
Supposedly, a top driver can out-drive the autotrickery, but 99% of us can't.

My lesson was that trying to reach the limits of a modern car was likely to end badly, having quite happily drifted and slid my old cortina to its limits for years, at the modest (cornering) speeds it was capable of. Even the Maestro van's cornering speeds was beyond my skill to control driven to, or slightly beyond, its limits.

 

[Profpointy]

I see your point but also consider that whilst modern cars do have driving aids, those that new drivers can afford, most likely won't have much beyond ABS . A 1 litre car is able to loose the back on an invisable diesel fuel spill as easily as a 3.0 litre. Also keep in mind that cats jump out...drivers do daft things and stuff just happens, that can cause a driver to take evasive action...this could involve or induce a skid, regardless if the drivers speed or care.

In those instances, be confidently able to control the skid, without overreacting is a great skill to have.

Ps, one of the snow skids was definitely my fault, no argument there.

Actually being able to control a skid is a good thing, and certainly on snow, I've been glad to do so once or twice. Trick is catching the return, rather than the skid itself. That said, not skidding in the first place is the key, and certainly on anything less than snow or ice you've got to be going bloody fast to slide a modern car however crap a model.

 

[raleighnut]

Actually being able to control a skid is a good thing, and certainly on snow, I've been glad to do so once or twice. Trick is catching the return, rather than the skid itself. That said, not skidding in the first place is the key, and certainly on anything less than snow or ice you've got to be going bloody fast to slide a modern car however crap a model.

Sometimes the return 'flick' is deliberately used.

View: https://youtu.be/aL85fZlYLQ0

 

[Profpointy]

Sometimes the return 'flick' is deliberately used.

View: https://youtu.be/aL85fZlYLQ0

I've known people who could do that sort of thing, one became British Champion at his particularly thing (autotesting as it's termed, which is spinning round cones in a car-park), and I've seen him quite safely spin a car round between stone walls on a single track road. Rest of us are wiser not to try though.

 

[Piemaster]

I see your point but also consider that whilst modern cars do have driving aids, those that new drivers can afford, most likely won't have much beyond ABS

ESC has been mandatory for a bit now, to quote wiki:

Consequently, the European Union decided in 2009 to make ESC mandatory. Since November 1, 2011, EU Type Approval is only granted to models equipped with ESC. By November 1, 2014, ESC is required on all newly registered cars in the EU

Theres also the deals on new cars including free insurance available (usual suspect is Citroen). It's standard on a good number of cars before then too, so ever more likely new drivers will have a first drive with it. Our 2008 Roomster has it - not an expensive car now by any means.
A favourite I hear locally is every time it snows, there are complaints on local radio (by older drivers) about young drivers not knowing how to drive in snow. So, how do they learn then? And how did YOU learn?