Shakespeare

[Davidc]

I like some of his plays, and love the sonnets. I've discovered them after the effects of O level study had worn off.

I agree with everyone who's said that the plays are for watching being performed, not for reading. O level study of Macbeth was nearly the end of my going near Shakespeare. Literature is only one of the subjects Mr Gove is going to turn a whole generation away from.

 

[Arch]

I'd have thought the way to get kids (esp teenagers) to love Shakespeare is to forbid them from reading it. Before you know it, they'll be poring over illicit copies behind the bike sheds.

 

[Aperitif]

[QUOTE 2540998, member: 1314"]Hey 'teef, to be honest, I'd declare Shane MacGowan to be a lyricst, rather than a poet. And I don't think he sees himself as anything more than that. I'd say he was the greatest punk lyricist of his generation which is a very narrow cultural place for him to inherit. I fully accept he means nothing to about 99% of the population even though he means a lot to me.

Shakespeare is worthy of study and memorable for poetic passion (that life, death thing which is what great poetry IMHO). However I think there's a lot of accepted cliche about Shakespeare which needs to be evaluated; and the whole tourist and schools curriculum driven industry edifice built around him creates a mythology which takes away from the art.

I still don't think he was a great playwright - great poet yes but not a playwright. FWIW - and I'm not showing off - I'd read a complete collection of his plays before I'd turned 13. Can't say I understood them at that age but I read them, and he was a constant in my teaching and learning from the age of 12 until I was 22.

Sorry for the long post but just trying to show there's some thinking behind my original rather brusque post![/quote]

See! I knew you had it in you - but I didn't want you to just come across as another 'nobber' on a thread, my friend.
You're still wrong though. I suggest we book a date at Stratford next season...I'll sort it. Afterwards, The Church Street Town House will be the eaterie...not a curry to be seen, and I remember the chips came in buckets but. It was ok.

 

[byegad]

He wrote great plays, good plays and one or two poor plays. His sonnets are equally variable.

I was made to read Julius Caesar at school and it was as boring as hell! So much so that about halfway through the class reading it, a wag at the back (And how I WISH it had been me.) called out; 'Sir! Do we have to read this? We know that Brutus and his mates done it!' The poor teacher gave up the 'reading' the next week.

Having seen the play, acted by professionals, it is a good play! But will we in 100 years time be forcing children to read the script of a present day film, rather than watch it? I think not!

 

[Yellow Fang]

You are confusing the plays with the playwright. George Bernard Shaw was a serial adulterer, for that matter, but was still able to produce several plays that were getting on for half as good as he thought they were.

Orwell made the same point in an essay about Dickens. I do tend to confuse authors with their work though. I like Orwell more because of all the things he went through.

I feel Bob Dylan was a bit of a fraud, as he was not committed to the political ideals of his musical heroes and friends. He was just interested in the music. I am happy to forgive Dylan because I like his music, while I am not keen on Shakespeare's plays.

 

[ASC1951]

Orwell made the same point in an essay about Dickens. I do tend to confuse authors with their work though. I like Orwell more because of all the things he went through.

What Orwell went through was a very comfortable upper middle class upbringing, then Eton, then teaching, then journalism. Almost all his privations were of his own choosing, to provide material for his writings.

I feel Bob Dylan was a bit of a fraud, as he was not committed to the political ideals of his musical heroes and friends.

It's art - he doesn't need to be. Some creative people agonise over every word or note, others can turn it out like any 9-5 desk job; and the work that the 'tortured artists' produce isn't necessarily any better than the output of the mentally and financially comfortable. If political commitment was all you needed, Billy Bragg would be an artistic sensation.

 

[andylaw79]

The follically challenged one with the over elaborate shirt collar.

That's Harry Hill isn't it?

 

[Pale Rider]

Cycling link:

The Handlebards are a group of cyclists who are doing a tour and performing Shakespeare plays along the way:

http://www.peculius.com/handlebards.html

 

[lozcs]

Cycling link:

The Handlebards are a group of cyclists who are doing a tour and performing Shakespeare plays along the way:

http://www.peculius.com/handlebards.html

Just got a text from dad - 'we tandemed to Stratford (from Birmingham) on route 55 & 5 to see Handlebard who are cycling from Glasgow to London performing Shakespeare'

 

[madferret]

Saw Othello last night at an outdoor "in the round" theatre in Chester.....was very good. Had to read up a bit before which made it easier to appreciate but absolutely loved it.

 

[Hill Wimp]

Sorry Shakespeare was a hack, Chaucers where it's at. Huge entertainment.

 

[madferret]

Is he touring?

 

[Profpointy]

What is your opinion of William Shakespeare? I am not a fan myself.

if you mean boredly (if that be a word) reading out in class, one of his worst plays, there may just be soemthing in what you say .

If you mean on stage, with a good cast, done well, then no-one else is even close and I am very much a fan. There's a reason that people are still paying good money to see them 400+ years on. Only yesterday saw Titus Andronicus in Stratford - nowehere near the Bard's greatest, but was well done and enthralling - and makes Tarrantino look like the teddy bears' picnic

In school, maybe 35 years ago, we did a (rather good) modern play "a man for all seasons" about Thomas More and Henry VIII - and after a year I was sick of it. We also did Midsummer Night's Dream, which is pretty lighteweight stuff, yet after a year I was still seeing something new in everyline - and me a Physics / Maths geek, not an arty type.

On film, there are a couple of superb versions - McKellern in Richard III - staged in a fascist style 30s look -
"My kingdom for a horse" he rages as his jeep is hit.

And perhaps less showy, but the recent Corialanus with Raif Feinnes astonishing in the title role, and Vanessa Redgrave as his eve scarier mother. Wow ! The original text with M16s and bombs.

Anyhow, give these a go - but although both are pretty showy versions, it's all a about the words.

"The stuff that dreams are made of"

 

[Profpointy]

I have seen a few films of Shakespeare over the years:

• Much ado about nothing (Branagh) - quite good. The British actors were better than the Americans, especially Richard Briars.
• Hamlet (Mel Gibson) - ok.
• Richard III (Ian McKellen) - risible and implausible but with a decent song and some good acting by Maggie Smith.
• Titus (Anthony Hopkins) - interesting video nasty.

End /quote]
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i though Mel Gibson rather good as Hamlet; though not a play I know well - other thank knowing half the lines already as "sayings" of course. Saw a terrible Hamlet in the Globe last year though - really poor - but the Globe's Henry IV part 1 and 2 with Roger Allam outstanding as Falstaff (the star of part 1 if you didn't know)

I really really liked McKellern in the film Richard III and thought the film and performances outstanding. And I know dick 3 quite well having seen a couple of really good ones on stage too. Knocks Olivier's film version into a cocked hat.
But different versions work for different people I guess

 

[Nigel-YZ1]

I had the teenage Shakespeare experience like many, which was the usual analysing to death of line after line. It is a different language, and I'm sure is better when performed. I'd like to see a play sometime.
The best experience of an interpretation for me was The Forbidden Planet. Monsters of the Id etc...