Shimano 105 LH shifter

e-rider

crappy member
Location
South West
So, I have one of the dodgy (now discontinued) Shimano 105 LH shifters that are double and triple compatible.

I have to say that it's nearly impossible to get it set perfectly and there are numerous stories of them failing completely (probably why shimano went back to double and triple specific).

My question is: if using it for a double; do you use the first and second clicks, or the second and third clicks?
 
My understanding of the way they fail is that if you set it to use the first and second clicks, relying on the High stop on the front mech to lock-out the third click, the third one is actually still there and if you try to select it by mistake you over-stress something internally which then fails.

If however you set it to use the second and third clicks, the first one will still be there and redundant, but selecting it won't do any harm.
 
OP
e-rider

e-rider

crappy member
Location
South West
Thanks for that; makes sense but you'd have to be pretty heavy handed to do that.

I currently have mine set on the first and second and I'm not happy with it's performance. I'm going to try the second and third as it might improve it.

Is there any difference in the amount of cable pulled between the different options?
It also has this strange double click thing going on; something like campagnolos 'trimming' - perhaps that differs between 1&2 and 2&3.
 
Ah, trimming...

Now I thought that trimming only occurred in the middle ring, as (on a triple) you'd only want to use the 'big cogs' half of the block on the granny-ring and the 'small cogs' half on the big ring, but in the middle ring you'd want to use all the cassette and hence you'd need the trim there.

That's how I've got my 9sp 105 triple set-up - the trim is just on the middle ring.

However, on a post a month or so ago, someone was saying they had intermediate trim 'half-clicks' in all three rings on 10sp 105 and linked to a Shimano tech doc which proved it.

How many trim clicks have you got ?

Personally, I've got my trim set-up on the big ring, but don't actually need it (Ultegra 6600 w FSA SLK 50/36 compact chainset)
- I can (yeah, I know you shouldn't...) use all the cassette in the 50 ring
- and I can use all bar the top 2 cogs in the 36 ring : but the limiting factor is not the front mech but is the chain catching on the teeth of the 50 ring
 
OP
e-rider

e-rider

crappy member
Location
South West
I have one trim click in the small ring and one in the outer ring so the same as you suggest for 10spd 105.

The trim always moves the front mech out slightly so in the outer ring the stop screw prevents this unless you force the lever (but that doesn't actually move the mech; just stresses the cable and lever).

I'm now having second thoughts about using 2nd and 3rd option as to accidently select 3 when in 2 you'd have to attempt to change gear again as you can only move up one ring at a time - I'm not about to do that!
 

Fattman

Active Member
Location
Roydon, Essex
I have got the equivalent Tiagra 3-ring shifter on 2-ring chainset on mine - I know it's not 105 but bear with me, I think it is simliar enuff, especially because of the Shimano trickle-down in their ranges over time...

I bust it within a fortnight of getting it when it was set up on clicks 1 & 2, mainly due to getting into a novice pickle with where I was on the rings :| For a couple of years I ran the replacement in the same configuration and it was fine, but I did occasionally 'over shift' and was always worried it was going to bust again. (A mate of mine did the same on a new bike only last year).

Now have it on 2 & 3, this seems ok, if anything slightly snickier. The stop adjusters prevent over-shift and it does have the advantage that dropping to the last position just slackens the cable. There should be no difference with amount of chain pulled, the relationship is linear and the rings are the same space apart 1-2-3.

Only thing I've found is it occasionally jumps off the outside of the big ring, fine adjustment of the top-limit required.

Finally, the trim option still seems to work between the clicks. With a 9-speed cassette, I am able to access the full width and it comes in useful.
 
OP
e-rider

e-rider

crappy member
Location
South West
Fattman said:
I have got the equivalent Tiagra 3-ring shifter on 2-ring chainset on mine - I know it's not 105 but bear with me, I think it is simliar enuff, especially because of the Shimano trickle-down in their ranges over time...

I bust it within a fortnight of getting it when it was set up on clicks 1 & 2, mainly due to getting into a novice pickle with where I was on the rings :| For a couple of years I ran the replacement in the same configuration and it was fine, but I did occasionally 'over shift' and was always worried it was going to bust again. (A mate of mine did the same on a new bike only last year).


Now have it on 2 & 3, this seems ok, if anything slightly snickier. The stop adjusters prevent over-shift and it does have the advantage that dropping to the last position just slackens the cable. There should be no difference with amount of chain pulled, the relationship is linear and the rings are the same space apart 1-2-3.

Only thing I've found is it occasionally jumps off the outside of the big ring, fine adjustment of the top-limit required.

Finally, the trim option still seems to work between the clicks. With a 9-speed cassette, I am able to access the full width and it comes in useful.
I have the same problem. I have set the limit screw but if I'm in the smallest few sprockets before changing it always want to go over and off. If I set the limit screw in more either the chain rubs the front mech when using the 50x12 or 50x13 gears (and the trim will not work) or the chain wont even go from small to outer chainring. I have set the height and angle correctly and have fiddled about with it for ages. It's OK but not perfect.

I have never tried to over-shift from 2 to 3 so I don't think this will be an issue, but as you say, if I change it to run on 2 and 3 the only thing that could happen is a slack cable.
 

oliver

Senior Member
Location
oxfordshire
i have the new sora eqivilent (2010) and i haven't had to many problems, but this thread has given me the idea to use 2-3 rather than 1-2 (it sometimes fails to change onto the big cog)

just going to the garage to change it now!!
 
OP
e-rider

e-rider

crappy member
Location
South West
I've just thought that going from 1 and 2 to 2 and 3 requires more cable. Mine is trimmed pretty short so I'd probably have to replace the inner cable.
 
OP
e-rider

e-rider

crappy member
Location
South West
very helpful indeed; and it suggests that if using it for a double it should be used with the 1st and 2nd click NOT the 2nd and 3rd click, as many have suggested
 

Chris James

Über Member
Location
Huddersfield
andy_wrx said:
However, on a post a month or so ago, someone was saying they had intermediate trim 'half-clicks' in all three rings on 10sp 105 and linked to a Shimano tech doc which proved it.

How many trim clicks have you got ?

...
I have 105 triple shifters and they have trimming on all the rings.
 

Fattman

Active Member
Location
Roydon, Essex
tundragumski said:
I have the same problem. I have set the limit screw but if I'm in the smallest few sprockets before changing it always want to go over and off. If I set the limit screw in more either the chain rubs the front mech when using the 50x12 or 50x13 gears (and the trim will not work) or the chain wont even go from small to outer chainring. I have set the height and angle correctly and have fiddled about with it for ages. It's OK but not perfect.
These things can be real b*ggers! My missus has got Dura-Ace throughout, and on one cassette it just will not go into the smallest sprocket - put a different one on and it's just fine!

On the rubbing/jumping, this may just be muddying things - I don't have it to hand but the Mighty Zinn mentions a mysterious thing called Chainline - I think it is the line from the centre of the gap between the two front gears to the midline of the cassette; apparently this can sometimes (often?) not run parallel to the centreline of the bike, and in that case the chain is deflected more in small-large than in large-small (or v-v) and you ain't never gonna get it to trim properly. Problem is, even if that were the case, I wouldn't have a clue how to fix it! :sad: Or measure it, for that matter... I'll look it up when I'm back in Blighty this evening, like I say, may just be over-complicating things!
 

Fattman

Active Member
Location
Roydon, Essex
tundragumski said:
very helpful indeed; and it suggests that if using it for a double it should be used with the 1st and 2nd click NOT the 2nd and 3rd click, as many have suggested
Indeed. When I bust my first one of these, Evans hadn't left that sticker on, so they gave me a new one. If you can avoid over-shifting then I guess it's the way to go - just seems weird that a fantastic engineering gang like Shimano would effectively design a mode of failure into the component.
 

jpembroke

New Member
Location
Cheltenham
Just in case incorrect cable routing is part of the problem:



I do bang on about this quite a lot but I've seen 3 bikes in the last year that have had the front mech cable clamped incorrectly making the rider think their front mech was knackered. Reclamped the cable and all was fine.

"On Shimano bottom pull derailleurs it is important to note that the cable runs UP AND OVER the leverage tab. Many people make the mistake of using the leverage tab as a cable pinch by running the cable UNDER the leverage tab - this changes the pulling leverage of the front shifter and makes it impossible to properly adjust the front derailleur."
 
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