Short stem / wide bars - does it work on a retro MTB?

[ChrisEyles]

I've been thinking about trying out a short stem/wide bar combo on my old-school FS Marin. It's currently got 600mm bars (with a little rise and a tiny bit of back sweep) and a whooping great 120mm stem.

First off, whatever else, that stem is just too long. I've got some bar ends on, and if I try to use them on a steep climb I invariably lose all traction on the rear wheel. So one option is to keep the narrow bars and get a 100mm-ish stem - this would make the reach, stem length, and bar width very similar to my similar vintage rigid bike, so I guess it should work fine.

However, while I do get on well with the long stem / narrow bar combo and enjoy the way the bike handles on smooth-ish tracks, I've been finding that with the FS, which enables and encourages you to go much faster on rough stuff than you can on a rigid, I've had a few hairy moments trying to hold the line I want to through rocks and ruts. I guess this is partly because the narrow-ish bars give a bit less leverage, but also because the long stem means the left and right hands don't really oppose one another much when the wheel turns (i.e. it's not an ergonomically strong position to resist the wheel being turned). So I've been thinking of getting a cheap 60-90mm stem and 680-720mm riser bars and seeing how I get on with them.

I've ridden a 90mm stem with a 700mm bar on a modern hardtail quite a bit, and while it felt horrible at first, I've now got used to it and actually quite like it. However I've no idea if the head angle is slacker, or the top tube of the bike longer than on my late nineties MTBs.

T'interwebs is full of armchair theorists on the subject, but I haven't been able to find accounts of many people who've tried the switch on a retro MTB (with associated steep HA and shorter top tube). Anyone on here taken the plunge, and if so did it work, or is this set-up not really compatible with older bikes?

 

[ChrisEyles]

I guess intended use is also important - for me this will be blues and reds at trail centres, singletrack through the woods, and lots of bridleways across Dartmoor/Exmoor (with some long tough climbs). It's the fast descents down rock strewn bridleways that have given me the most grief, but being able to get my weight back behind a shorter stem will be nice for the trail centres too. In an ideal world I wouldn't want to sacrifice too much climbing performance either.

Haha, the only other thing that makes me reluctant to try is that I'd have to give up my beloved cow horn bar ends if I fitted a wide riser bar (....unless maybe I fit them inboard of the grips, hehe )

 

[Hacienda71]

I have put wider bars and a shorter stem on my 2004 fs stumpjumper and it definitely feels more responsive on the trails. It used to be xc orientated with a 110 stem and fairly narrow bars. I also feel a bit less pitched forward on technical steep stuff.

 

[ChrisEyles]

That's good to know @Hacienda71. What length stem and bars did you go from/to? And did you find you had any difficulty getting enough weight over the front wheel to corner at speed afterwards?

 

[Hacienda71]

60mm stem and 720 bars iirc so quite a big change. Took it around the Black at Llandegla with some of the chaps off here a few weeks ago and it felt better than the last time I was there with the long stem and narrow bars. I did worry I would be too far back on the steeper technical climbs but it was fine.

 

[ChrisEyles]

That sounds really rather promising! I think I'm pretty sold on trying some 720mm bars, but still not sure what to go for on the stem from 60-90mm. Good to know the front wheel wasn't all over the place on the climbs too.

 

[3narf]

I have wide, riser bars and 50mm stem on my 1992 Orange Clockwork, as well as Kona Project 2 forks. I definitely prefer the way it rides even though it was designed for XC, and came with narrow, flat bars and 130mm (!) stem.

It doesn't look the part any more, but that's fine with me. I'm not one for retro builds anyway!

 

[ChrisEyles]

Well, I've ordered some cheapy 720mm bars and an 80mm stem (with a bit of rise to it, so effectively slightly shorter). When they eventually arrive from China I shall see how it goes!

 

[3narf]

The seat is high for efficient pedalling but it looks better a bit lower, tbh...

 

[fossyant]

Thinking of changing my bars to wider ones. I chopped loads off the width years ago but might go for a change.

 

[clockworksimon]

I've got a riser stem and wider than original riser bars on my '94 Orange C16r. Still use bar ends which are nice when climbing to get the weight distribution right. The bike is much more comfortable and better on technical trails. Fine for the black trail at Llandegla.

 

[ChrisEyles]

@3narf nice Orange! I toyed with the idea of trying out a SS mountain bike but it never seems such a good idea when I'm out on Dartmoor slogging up a hill... The bars I've ordered have a bit less rise and a bit more back sweep than the ones you've got on there.

I just had an email from the seller saying they're having postage problems so will probably take yonks to arrive by boat, but then again there's no big rush. Going to replace the drivetrain too 'cos a) it's knackered and b) I've always wanted to have a go on an elliptical chainring. Will put up some piccies and a ride report when it's all finished.

 

[Jody]

I have always ridden wide bars and a short (ish) stem even going back to the mid 90's. My current bike was on a 110mm stem with standard bars but quickly swapped for 50mm and 760 bars. I'm not a tall or wide chap so more than 760/80 feels a bit odd. You should have no problem switching to wider bars and short stem but some people don't like it especially with steep head angles. The front end can be very quick to react, feeling a little skittish and steep climbs can take a bit of manipulation to keep the front wheel down.

 

[ChrisEyles]

I finally got around to putting on a new set of bars/stem - in the end I went for 720mm risers (with a fair bit of backsweep) and an 80mm stem with a bit of rise to it (which puts the bars just a tad below the saddle at optimum pedalling height).



My first impression was that aesthetically I don't like them as much as the old ones (my beloved bar ends had to go)... but a quick scootle around outside the house felt rather promising, I really liked the way the bike felt diving into a sharp corner. I also felt like the high saddle was getting in the way of me leaning the bike as much as I wanted to, which interestingly I never found a problem with the longer stem/narrower bars. I'm itching to get out to my local trails and see just how big a difference the new set-up makes, but the forecast for the weekend is abysmal so guess it will have to wait a little while yet.

I also repaced the entire drivetrain since it was knackered when I got the bike and was starting to skip. I swapped out the 11-30 cassette for an 11-34 one, which already felt a lot nicer on the one short sharp gradient I tested it out on, and I got a narrow/wide chainring to hopefully help keep the chain in place (I removed the front derailleur, will have to put it back on if the chain drops on the rough stuff). At the same time I swapped the SRAM shifter/rear mech for a nicer 90s shimano set I had in the parts bin, which again has a bit more tension to keep the chain in place... all in all it's been a thoroughly enjoyable bit of tinkering while the rain's been pouring down outside

 

[3narf]

It looks great, C! For years we struggled with stretched out riding positions and it was all fashion. Emulate those XC racers...