Should I be offended?

[ufkacbln]

Was it Charles Dance who said that fear of racism was the best thing that happened to the english actor?

The interview was along the lines that producers were scared to put any ethnic minority into the role of baddie and that many ethnic actors were also afraid to take up these roles due to a potential backlash.

So along come the english - we do excellent baddies and no-one really cares so roll on the big parts.... and big cheques.

With the number of big Hollywood films with english baddies he has a point.

 

[montage]

Yes.

When I come across someone who is racist against me I just think 'Idiot!' and then forget about it. It is their loss really.
I will report it at work if I find someone else being racist generally or towards another person who is clearly distressed by it or uses it as a means of trying to wind me up.

Overall I try to take things in context and if something is not meant to offend then fair enough. If something is unintentionally offensive due to ignorance then a little education may be all that is needed.

If only all people thought like this

 

[Arch]

If only all people thought like this

Well yes, you can say that of any sensible opinion, but we're humans, and humans are bonkers...


I was thinking about this in bed this morning (how sad is that?) and it occured to me that it's still fine for men to play women and vice versa, in comedy (Little Britain, Catherine Tate) - in fact it's actively part of the joke...

With regard to Chinese characters on TV, I wonder how much is due to the relatively recent nature of large scale arrival of Chinese in the UK - I know there have been large populations in some cities, but I would have guessed that black and Asian (by which I mean Indian/Pakistani, I know to an American, Asian means what I would call Oriental) outnumbered Chinese in most people's range of acquaintence until quite recently. So they'll take a while to filter through to TV. (Although I also remember The Chinese Detective).

Although, TV has been quick to pick up on Eastern Europeans - perhaps because it's easy to get any white actor to put on an accent.

The one thing I would say about being offended on other people's behalf is that not everyone is able to shrug off idiots as easily as NT, and anyone who's been bullied in life perhaps wants to avoid it happening to anyone else, so they might tend to take on the defence of others, whether they need or want it or not. (Of course, there are hard core nuts who go too far, see my above diagnosis of the human race).

 

[ttcycle]

I don't know Arch, migration of oriental families and individuals has happened since the 50's, there was a lot of post war racism and migration has increased since the 70's onwards. I think maybe the numbers have been smaller than with other communities and perhaps less visible in that sense

 

[Arch]

I don't know Arch, migration of oriental families and individuals has happened since the 50's, there was a lot of post war racism and migration has increased since the 70's onwards. I think maybe the numbers have been smaller than with other communities and perhaps less visible in that sense

That's what I mean - I know there has been immigration, but it's been less obvious than that of Indians for example. I grew up partly in Leicester, so Asians were utterly 'normal' to me, but I didn't know anyone Chinese. If I'd grown up in Manchester or Liverpool, that might have been reversed. They have Chinatown, Leicester has the Belgrave Road.

Whereas there has been a huge influx of Chinese students in recent years - I think Chinese is the most common ethnic minority I see around York which is, compared with Leicester, almost entirely 'white'.

 

[dellzeqq]

to go back to the OP - I find those caricatures unpleasant.

I've some idea of what goes on in casting for telly. It's still really difficult for black and asian actors to get a job because casting directors simply have a blind spot. The BBC doesn't set quotas, but if a production goes ahead with an all-white cast it might be that the Commissioning Editor would think twice about commissioning the same company or the same producer again. And rightly so.

ITV and C4 are less interested, and one US network has a bar on Jews.

 

[wafflycat]

As a woman - a member of the gender often subject of nasty, belittling stereotypes and caricatures in the media, I tend not to get offended about the stereotypes as depicted in stuff made a long time ago, when such attitudes were more accepted. That's the past, and it is past. The stuff is made, but not of now. Indeed such things can be pointed at and laughed at in so many ways.

What does tend to upset/anger/bother me is when it's stuff of *today* which promotes such ignorant caricatures and stereotypes as if it's still ok.

 

[661-Pete]

NT on the reverse side, you will also find a distinct lack of characters in soaps/tv programmes/adverts that are chinese/thai/japanese.

Torchwood.

But the point is well made.

My parents, oddly enough, used to avidly watch the B&W Minstrel show. And they were diehard middle-class Guardian-reading Labour supporters through-and-through, they adored Nye Bevan and Gaitskell and all. Though my mother did wonder, sometimes, whether perhaps there was something wrong in actors in 'blackface' (white actors in comic black make-up - a venerable acting tradition going back in time long before Al Jolson). My personal view is, B&WM is a thing of the past and should now be buried and forgotten.

 

[rich p]

Are they bringing it back then?

 

[661-Pete]

Are they bringing it back then?

I should hope not! But there are plenty of clips to be found on Youtube etc. I suppose they're not doing very much harm, nowadays, but I'd feel more comfortable if there weren't.

 

[mr_hippo]

'Blackface' has been a tradition in the theatre for hundreds of years and so has men playing women and women playing men. Please learn the difference between theatrical performances and real life.

 

[Arch]

'Blackface' has been a tradition in the theatre for hundreds of years and so has men playing women and women playing men. Please learn the difference between theatrical performances and real life.

Of course, there are traditions, but traditions also change. Men once played women because women were forbidden to act - a bit different from the pantomine dame. Anyway, I have no objection to men playing women and vice versa, I merely pointed out that it's still absolutely acceptable and indeed encouraged, when many other situations are now less so.

As Waffles said, if something comes from a past age, when attitudes were different, then some allowance should be made, safe in the knowledge that we've come on a bit... The trouble is perhaps not so much that people blacked up, but that some other people perhaps saw it as an opportunity to laugh AT the people portrayed, as opposed to understand the historical tradition.

Nowadays, I don't see why a white man shouldn't play Othello, but as a white man (even though the character is a Moor), just as I'd be happy to see a black man play Hamlet, if he was good enough. It's the quality of the actor that should matter.

 

[wafflycat]

My personal view is, B&WM is a thing of the past and should now be buried and forgotten.

If such things are buried & forgotten, then we forego the opportunity for people to continue to learn why they are no longer acceptable.

 

[mr_hippo]

...but that some other people perhaps saw it as an opportunity to laugh AT the people portrayed, as opposed to understand the historical tradition.

Nowadays, I don't see why a white man shouldn't play Othello, but as a white man (even though the character is a Moor), just as I'd be happy to see a black man play Hamlet, if he was good enough. It's the quality of the actor that should matter.

People were laughing at the character and not at black people.
Othello was black & Hamlet white. Would you like to see Cassius Clay played by Vinnie Jones or a KKK Grand Wizard played by Will Smith?

 

[Night Train]

I see where this is going...so how about it NightTrain? Fancy a career in SHOWBIZ!!! how are your jazz hands?

I am an actor, albeit in amature theatre.

People were laughing at the character and not at black people.
Othello was black & Hamlet white. Would you like to see Cassius Clay played by Vinnie Jones or a KKK Grand Wizard played by Will Smith?

I can see a point in this.
Laughing at a humerous situation played by a charater is very different to laughing at the stereotyping of a group.

I can also appreciate the idea of giving an acting part to the best person for role regardless of race or any other catagory, however, the part played also needs to closely represent the character.
If a character is supposed to be female then it would be unusual to cast a male, especially if it effectively changed the way a story line would work. So casting a part with an actor who completely failed to 'look' the part by way of colour or appearance would be odd.
A soapland pub landlord/lady could be almost any ethnic group or age without problem but a film about Vikings would be odd played by groups of Asian and African actors, no matter how well they acted.

The small ads on Talent Circle do often specify ethnicity, age, body type and sometimes have very stereotyped character descriptions.