Slammin Sam

[Beebo]

His heart just wasnt in it!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34772560
What was he expecting? He was always going to be under the spot light.
I dont think that Burgess or the RFU did enough "due diligence" before the switch.

 

[Vidor06]

When Sam was persuaded to leave rugby league he should have been told that it was a minimum of a five year plan, so that he would have been at his peak in time for the 2019 world cup in Japan. He is undoubtedly a talented lad who was sold a pup. Those who packaged and sold that pup should now pay for it with their jobs. Sam's reputation has been damaged by a debacle that wasnt of his own making.
The RFU need to stop raiding foreign fields and rugby league for players. A union which has the biggest player pool in the world (bigger than SANZAR combined) and the most money should not need to go beyond the almighty resources at its fingertips. This harkens to a much bigger problem of a lack of quality coaching at lower levels which seems to be replicated in elite rugby, soccer and cricket in England.

 

[nickyboy]

lack of quality coaching at lower levels which seems to be replicated in elite rugby, soccer and cricket in England.

This is an important point I think. The quality of coaching in serious RU-playing schools is very good and this is the main source of elite players. But go to the other 95% of schools and either there's no RU or it's poor. These players are then destined either to give up or play local club rugby where the general standard of coaching is far below that of the RU-playing schools. So they disappear without trace

 

[Venod]

Or they get a scholarship to a serious rugby playing school.

Or if they live in Yorkshire/Lancashire they go to League. were the local club rugby is coached well.

 

[nickyboy]

Or they get a scholarship to a serious rugby playing school.

Very few schools offer scholarships, certainly in NW England. I'm only aware of two; Kirkham and Sedbergh

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Or they get a scholarship to a serious rugby playing school.

Or they join a Premiership academy. And don't get me started on the iniquities of that system...

 

[GrumpyGregry]

When Sam was persuaded to leave rugby league he should have been told that it was a minimum of a five year plan, so that he would have been at his peak in time for the 2019 world cup in Japan. He is undoubtedly a talented lad who was sold a pup. Those who packaged and sold that pup should now pay for it with their jobs. Sam's reputation has been damaged by a debacle that wasnt of his own making.
The RFU need to stop raiding foreign fields and rugby league for players. A union which has the biggest player pool in the world (bigger than SANZAR combined) and the most money should not need to go beyond the almighty resources at its fingertips. This harkens to a much bigger problem of a lack of quality coaching at lower levels which seems to be replicated in elite rugby, soccer and cricket in England.

He was only offer a contract to 2018, and it would take him that long to learn how to play at 6 at test level. With no guarantee he would make that level.

 

[david k]

The way people have come out you'd think he dropped every ball and missed every tackle!
A friend I work with is a season ticket holder at Bath and said before the World Cup Sam has been outstanding at flanker.
Now it seems his good games have been air brushed out of history.
Fact is his heart wasn't in it, fine when leading to the WC as he had a goal to work towards, what does he have now? Wait another 4 years to get to grips with the game, build a reputation that many seemed to want to crush and then maybe not make it into the team, which I guess would take a brave coach to select him now after the negative media surrounding him.

He has been honest to hi at and his club by saying his heart isn't in it, they have got a very good fee by all accounts and Sam gets to return to his family and a game he loves. He pretty much said he found Union boring and needed league to inspire him. I know it doesn't look good, it looks like he has walked away after bath spent time with him but the alternative is to stay and not give it all, surely being host is the best way to go.

I don't think RU and past, and current players have come out of this with much dignity.mthe captain telling Sam he cannot address the players? He was prepared to face them, Ford having a sly dig and many people coming out of the woodwork to gloat it just makes the RU community look disingenuous, there's some reputation building to be had here.
Sam also needs to re build his reputation but he is an absolute God in Sydney and rugby league, I don't think it will take much, rugby league will simply carry on as it always has.

Farrel was another one but he went at the end of his career and was another league forward selected in the backs in Union. Most coverts who make it are backs going in each direction. League used to take a few years to develop players, I remember Davies going to Widnes, they really looked after him, sure noon can learn from this

 

[Wafer]

Sam also needs to re build his reputation but he is an absolute God in Sydney and rugby league, I don't think it will take much, rugby league will simply carry on as it always has

Yeah, after taking the drastic approach of moving to the other side of the world to take on the challenge of playing a different sport with some similar skill sets and the aim of playing for England, he decided to go back to what he knows because he doesn't want to spend another 18 months learning how to be a 6...

He got what he wanted from Union, played for England, got a world cup experience in a bigger sport.

Completely understand Hooper not wanting him back in the changing room, there's at least 1 player there who deserved his spot in the rwc squad more than he did (and also came from RL), who had not just had a half decent game or 2 at centre but been consistently good there over a period of time and already played well for England. More importantly Burgess has shown a lack of willingness to fight for the shirt (Bath or England), which for guys who've been at Bath a long time can't be very nice to hear. He doesn't represent the promise of his arrival, either he completely underestimated what it would take playing prem rugby union, or he got exactly what he was after and is now done with it, either way it doesn't reflect too well on him regardless.

On the flip side, David Denton is a very good signing, already a good international flanker and we'll never know if Burgess would ever have been as good as Denton already is.

 

[martint235]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Burgess is a good RU player. He's just not an international level RU player and now we'll never find out if he could have made it.

I don't often refuses have much time for Mike Brown but he seems to have disappeared it right with his comment that no one played well enough in an England shirt to be publicly slinging M mud at other players.

Have we rung Brian Noble yet?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

How many penalties did Burgess give away in his Union career? How many times did he get carded?

(and the elite level refs copped criticism for bending over backwards to help him....)

 

[Venod]

Sam gave it a go and from what i saw did well in a short space of time, he says his heart wasn't in so why not quit and do a job you love, not many of us have that choice so good luck to him.
What gets my goat is the attitude of a lot of Union players and supporters who still think their game is superior, its not, both codes have there good points and bad points, I love to watch good flowing game of Union but it is often spoiled by the whistle blower, they all seem to interpret the rules differentley, and a scrum can take 10 minutes then end in a penalty ( I know its a technical part of the game but a boring one) League can get monotonous when both sides are just grinding out six tackles, I have said this before Union with 2 less men on the pitch, less petty rules would be a cracking game.

 

[Wafer]

What gets my goat is the attitude of a lot of Leage players and supporters who still think their game is superior, its not, both codes have there good points and bad points

Fixed that for you

 

[Venod]

Fixed that for you

And I forgot to add, don't take kindly to criticism.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Sam gave it a go and from what i saw did well in a short space of time, he says his heart wasn't in so why not quit and do a job you love, not many of us have that choice so good luck to him.
What gets my goat is the attitude of a lot of Union players and supporters who still think their game is superior, its not, both codes have there good points and bad points, I love to watch good flowing game of Union but it is often spoiled by the whistle blower, they all seem to interpret the rules differentley, and a scrum can take 10 minutes then end in a penalty ( I know its a technical part of the game but a boring one) League can get monotonous when both sides are just grinding out six tackles, I have said this before Union with 2 less men on the pitch, less petty rules would be a cracking game.

spoken like a true fan of RL

Which 'petty' laws in Union would you change and in what way? I'd bin "numbers" in the line out, iirc for a couple of seasons this was removed. If folk want to watch Union played with less players I'd suggest the follow Seven's; the best form of Rugby for a spectator there is imo.

As to interpretation by refs... at any given level of the game that's usually more of a comprehension problem on behalf of the spectators and players ime.

Glad I never played in a game you've watched. 10 minute scrums? I'd have been crawling away 10m once pinged!